How do I get people willing to work for free with me?

B

Boxing Fanatix

Member
I'm talking about the backstage crew. Actors are for another discussion, I need a boom operator and a camera operator that KNOW what they are doing. I have yet to make a movie that is worth showing to people. Only made short films with me and my friends, but I want to start to step it up a notch.

It even gets more complicated as I will need light technicians for lighting, etc.

So simple question, any way for me to get people to work free back stage?

Thanks.
 
Well, ask the question in reverse -- what do you do really, really well, that you get paid a hundred bucks an hour to do? And how can I get you to do that for me, for free?

Answer that question, and you have a pretty good idea of how to get solid pros to work on your film for free.

With that said -- many pros will occasionally work on a film for fun. They won't work a grind of a job for free, but if the project is a tremendous amount of fun and all the people on it are great to be around, and it's a personal project and they judge the person behind the project to be a good contact and someone they want to establish a relationship with, then maybe.

Or, if you're offering someone something that they can't get elsewhere. Say someone who really, really wants a credit as a feature film DP, but hasn't managed to land that job yet. If they're desperate enough to show off their chops, maybe they'd work your job for free, because it's the only way they can get that credit. But then you're not necessarily getting someone who KNOWs what they're doing -- perhaps there's reasons they haven't been given the opportunity yet...

Or, there's barter. Maybe you're an unbelievable After Effects wizard, who charges $1000/day. Maybe you find a great cinematographer and a fantastic sound guy who are working on their own film, and they have zero post skills and zero money, so you agree to do a tradeout of services...

In general, the more seasoned and veteran (and older) the professional, the less likely you'll get them to work a project for free. The younger and greener they are, the more likely they are. Film students are maybe your best bet, if you live in an area with a college with a film program. They may not be as expert as you want, but then again there's the old adage of "beggars can't be choosers."
 
Don't expect people to work for free and stick with you the entire time if something paying comes up during your shoot. On my short we paid everyone (greatly reduced day rate) but we lost some of them to features that started up during our shoot. Expect it.
 
Also, I see a lot of ads that ask for the moon to come along with the person who is working for free. As Barry said, getting a DP credit may be worth it to someone who is struggling to get one, but if you require a 3CCD HD camera with all the trimmings AND a full light kit (I see these Craigslist postings all the time) that sort of thing isn't usually going to be possessed by the kind of people who'd jump at the chance, and so you're not going to find too many takers.
 
In your ad or your pitch to potential crew member, give them as much details as possible about the project and make it sounds like something that they would want to contribute their time to. Explain clearly what potential real benefits, if any, you can give them in exchange for their service. Don't feed them lines about it being a good opportunity for experience or future work or riches at the end of the rainbow etc. because it'll be up to them to decide whether this is a good opportunity or not. Personally I'm much more likely to contribute my time if the person shows a genuine enthusiasm for the project, is humble in asking for help and don't try to BS me.
 
Snazzy Flapper said:
Don't expect people to work for free and stick with you the entire time if something paying comes up during your shoot. On my short we paid everyone (greatly reduced day rate) but we lost some of them to features that started up during our shoot. Expect it.
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We shot a feature and lost our 2nd A.C. to a bigger feature ;) lol, that happens when you don't pay that much money, as long as people replace themselves it's all good, and as long as you don't start losing department heads, which you probably won't.
 
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The trick to getting people to work for free is giving them a reason to work for free in a tight economy. Huy Vu has some great points too. I would also add make it easy. Have your own equipment so all they have to do is get on a bus. And for the love of all that is Holy, FEED THEM!!!! You'll probably get a lot of students, which is fine as long as they know what their doing. For "Wages of Sin" people would simply not have anything to do so they'd come and shoot for a day for the credit and food.

I did some free work not too long ago and wasn't fed. That stroked me the wrong way and if these people ever contact me again I'm going to tell them about themselves. I did get to meet Pam Grier though, so that was sweet. But when having people work for free food is a must. A $5.00 subway sandwich for $200 - $500 worth of work is more than a good deal, seriously. How much does it cost to make finger sandwiches and brownies. Chinese food is cheap and "Little Ceasars" is $5.99 for a whole pizza. Everyone talks smack about it, but amazingly it always ends up gone. In the indy filmmaking biz food is currency. End of story.

-Nate
 
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I work on spec projects once a year, time allowing. Usually the projects are someone else's, because I'm too uninspired or downright lazy to get my own narrative projects going between my regular work.

If you want professionals to buy into your project, don't approach them as if you're doing them a favor. The favor is being done for you. No matter how good your project is, this is the truth of it. Therefore, treat these people as if they are the most important relationships you have. Feed them and don't push for eight-page days.

Paid work usually will come first - unless they're "gentlemen filmmakers". They will need to go away to take a real job if one comes up. And it isn't their responsibility to replace themselves on an unpaid job. If they can, they're a mensch to surpass all mensches.

If you're the Craigslist producer, the onus is on you to do what you say you will and keep a vivid line of communication open with your production crew. No call sheets at 11pm on unpaid shows. Be organized and respectful of the fact that professionals are accustomed to being treated as professionals. That means, do what you can to run a set that resembles a professional set - even if the pay isn't there.

Don't go beyond the sixth hour [before meal breaks]. Don't ask for grace on breaks or meals. Don't go beyond industry-standard minimum call days - tens or sometimes twelves. You don't have the right to ask for sixteens. Don't force a call with a turn-around less than eight hours. Be a human and be humane.

Feed the crew a variety of food and have a brisk craft services set-up at all times - right up until the wrap each day.

Owner-operators often finance their gear. If you don't pay them, but can help pay their month's lease (usually around a three-day week rental equivalent), you'll border on being a hero if they're having a slow month.

It's all really common sense, great religions of the world kind of considerations. Oh, and don't disappear once physical production wraps. Keep the crew informed and involved through post, marketing and screenings - even if the premier is a private, hosted bar of cheap beer affair in your mom's basement.
 
I think that the skills needed to get people to work for free are not much different than the skills you need to be a good director, charisma being one of the most important. I like Pauly Shore's definition-"It's a special quality of leadership that captures the active imagination and inspires allegiance and devotion". Some may disagree with me here, but you could have one of the most unoriginal and worthless scripts around, but if you know how to get people to band together for you, you'll still be able to make an okay movie.
 
The trick to getting people to work for you for free seems to be not replying to their emails.

In the last year I've volunteered to work on three productions. One Criagslist and two from forums. I've been pretty up front that I don't have an amazing reel or a ton of experience but that I'd be willing to do vfx/post work for free. In all three cases I got no reply. Not even so much as a "we've found someone else" or even a "we are still looking and will get back to you". Two months after I sent the message for the Criagslist job I finally heard back from the guy and ended up doing some work on it. The other two haven't bothered to reply at all.

Clearly the secret to getting people to do massive amounts of work for free is to ignore them.
 
I have to agree with the food comment.

I use to volunteer with a community access channel a long time ago. And this Lady I worked taught me a lot. She said you can get people to work for free, but you can't get them to work hungry.

On my last film, even though no one got paid. I made sure to have lots of stuff: bottled water, Vitamin Water was on sale so I bought that too, went to the deli and bought cold cuts, snacks. A pound of sliced salami can hold a crew for a while! Plus pizza for lunch. I had a tired crew at the end of the day, but every one was feed and wasn't hungry. I also try avoid foods that crash people, IE: junk food, sodas....

It amazes me how Directors/Producers can not think about their crews need in the most basic way. I'm extremely grateful for everyone that volunteers on my set and the least I can do is feed them and thank them for showing up.
 
Look for local independent film making groups. There are multiple in my areas, often made up of professional producers, editors, cinematographers, etc that perhaps do corporate videos as their profession but really want to do films.

I found a lot through Meetup.com and saw there is a group in your area.
http://www.meetup.com/Inland-Northwest-Filmmakers/

They don't have a lot of members at 35 but that is still enough you should be able to find some free help.

Through one of my local indepentent film Meetup groups I found a professional producer, DP, editor, and lighting person to help with my short we are shooting next week. All three actors are also professional. I'm the only non-professional on the team. :)
 
Nate has some good information about the food, and Erik pretty much sums up everything.

Let me tell you why I left a production I was asked to work on for free.

I was asked to work on a friend of a friends project over the course of a week.



We went out on a tech day before production:

-Didn't get fed breakfast and had to argue with director to take me to get some food, of which I paid for. Same thing happened at lunch around 6pm.

-Director didn't think it was important to drop me off at my house with my equipment. Asked me what bus stop he should drop me off at. Which I refused. Told him to drop me off at my house.

-He wasn't pleasant to work with.



After that I told him I wanted nothing to do with his project. I know he was a first time director, But taking care of your DP and the rest of your crew is pretty important if you want them to respect you as a director. It should be common sense, but sometimes it isn't.
 
Food definitely!

Probably the biggest part is charisma. I have people that ask me to shoot stuff all the time because I've got a camera, lights, and gear. If it's not a paying gig, usually the answer is no. But if it's someone with a great project, tons of passion, and something that I believe I will enjoy, then they have my attention.

One of my jobs is working as a media producer for a marriage ministry. They have this thing called the Flag Page and basically it says people come from 4 different countries: Control, Fun, Perfect and Peace. Each country has different motivations. Fun country likes things that are fun. Control country is motivated by accomplishment. Perfect country is motivated by quality. Peace country is motivated by just getting along with everyone.

The point simply is, if you went to someone from Control country and said "Hey let's do this project, it'll be a ton of fun!" they may not really care. But if you talked about what you would like to accomplish and how you really felt that you need their help to accomplish the project, they may be more inclined.

I just boils down to meeting each person where they are at and finding out how to motivate them.
 
My advice?

Don't.

If your project isn't good enough to get investors interested, or you're not willing to do the work to scare up the money you need, don't do the project. There's a helluva lot of money out there, a lot of it bookmarked for beginning film makers. And, there's a helluva lot of crap films made that shouldn't have been, ate up the money available for good projects, and wasted everyone's time. If you have a real project, something you're passionate about, you can find the money. If you can't afford to pay your people, you can't afford to make your film.

Let me give you a little illustration on what asking people to work for free does to them;

I'm an award-winning costume designer. I specialize in period pieces. I'm very _very_ good at what I do. I started my career at 30, working in community theatre, choosing that instead of going back to school, as I'd been told that, in the local university design dept, everything you learn is from working on student projects. I figured I could do that on my own, and not end up with a student loan debt. After a year or two of that, I moved on to semi-professional and professional theatre work, and started doing some film work as well.

In the past 8 years I've done over 40 plays, 5 films and a music video. In 2009, I worked on 6 projects. I worked 26 weeks, and _averaged_ 57 hours per week. Which means, the weeks I was working, I was averaging 114 hour weeks. I made $3000, total. Canadian.

Why am I still getting underpaid? Because the unions and the professional film companies don't care about unpaid or underpaid work. I've put in thousands of hours, designing dozens of projects, and, as far as they're concerned, I'm a waitress. Only, I can't actually work as a waitress, because, half the time, I have to put in 114 hours/week on a show. After designing all these shows (which have won awards, got rave reviews, and a stack of glowing references) I can't get into the unions as a seamstress.

So, not only are you asking your dedicated and skilled people to work for free, you're also screwing them. If they belong to a union they can be penalized or kicked out for working non-union gigs, and if they aren't in a union, you're wasting their time. They get nothing out of it, not even applicable work experience.

As the producer, your job is to get the money to pay for your film, including the wages of your crew. Why are you asking other people to do their jobs when you haven't done yours?
 
If your project isn't good enough to get investors interested, or you're not willing to do the work to scare up the money you need, don't do the project
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I would strongly disagree with this. If we all sat around not making movies because we couldn't do them "the right way" then we'd never learn and never get any better. In my eyes, making a no budget film and not being able to pay anyone is the new "paying your dues" that used to be paid by working your way up from a gopher. Who cares if you can't raise money? There's more to making movies than having a great script, experience being almost a prerequisite. So make a movie with a volunteer crew. Or no crew. Write a story that you can make without them. Get the experience telling a story so you can get funding for your next story.
 
Do not feel entitled to have people work for free. I'm all for the independent spirit, but at least offer a token amount, which can go a long way in establishing good faith in the crew members who are contributing their talents to your project. Paying even reduced rates can get expensive for a true indie producer, which is why you also need to keep the scope of your production in check. If you only have money for a DP, sound, and grip, then make something out of that. Actually, having a tiny crew will likely benefit you in keeping the potential chaos of a set down to a minimum until you grow in experience (and budget).
 
My point is, that's all very well and good for you, to gain your experience, but your crew aren't going to be able to benefit from _their_ experience. The unions don't count it as experience. A new tech is much better off to go to film school, get their experience on student films and graduate (which _does_ count to the unions) than to work for free on projects that don't mean anything to the people who may hire them in the future. It's an imposition, and an unfair one.

And, if your projects are crap, and are just being made for the sake of making them, why are you a film maker? Why would anyone want to be a film maker to make crap films? The people who succeed as film makers are the ones with vision, with stories worth telling, and the determination to get them done right.

If you want to play around with your digital camera and your home editing software, that's fantastic. Do it. Have fun. Make mistakes. Shoot everyone and everything, and make hundreds of stupid little movies and post them on youtube. You'll learn mountains of useful things. It's a fantastic way to develop your skills. But don't impose on other people, who are trying to make their own way, create their own careers, don't insult their skills and talents, by asking them to work for free.

The worst part is, you can usually find them. Us, I should say, because I have eagerly jumped at the chance to work myself into an early grave on projects that cost me money to work on, in gas and workspace rent, machine upkeep and childcare. I've done it again and again and again. I've had some fun, and I've had some struggles, and I've learned a lot. And now that I've paid my dues, nobody counts them as paid. Because _I_ wasn't paid.

A friend of mine told me, recently, "The problem with you artists is that you're all crackwhores when you should be callgirls." I blinked and requested an explanation. He said, "A crackwhore will do anything for $20. A callgirl will do anything _you_can_afford_." And he's absolutely right. Because taking on these freebie jobs not only devalued my time, my talent and my effort, it also devalues everyone else who does what I do. Why should anyone ever pay their crew, when there are idiots like myself willing to turn ourselves inside out for free?

I'm sorry. You're getting the brunt of my current frustration. But I am (much belatedly) coming to the realization I should have, years ago; people value what they pay for. The _industry_ values what is paid for. If you value your crew, you will find a way to pay them.
 
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