How do cinematographers know what to get?

D

DDirector

Veteran
One of the biggest problems I have is not knowing what lighting equipment I need.
I've run into problems where I get what I think I'd be needing then turning out I could have done better if I had this light too, or something else.

Sometimes I just under estimate what I need.
Seeing some behind the scenes of professionaly films, I've seen them use lighting gear I would have never thought to use. Or I would know I need it, but not get enough of them, thinking it was plenty.
It also comes down to grip gear.

I can't have everything with me, so I take what I need and what I can. But it usually end up screwing me over because I am short something or with I had something else.

And you may think this looks great with this light, but then experiment with another light or do something slightly different and it turns out way better than your plan. But you just can't pull it off.

I plan as much as possible. Getting stills from everything shot I need and getting a scale diagram of the area done and marking it with the lights I BELIEVE I'd need, but once set up, its not as great as I'd thought it would be.
How do professional DP's know what they need for that scene? They don't always get the chance to check it out before the shoot to see what's best. Its like they know exactly what they need, and it turns out great.
 
Ummmm.... Sorry to be "mr. obvious" but it all comes from experience.

On smaller shoots i'm limited by the amount of crew or sometimes size of the van/car sent to pick up my gear (since i own most of what i need) so i always have to make "creative compromises." There are things that i'm given i'll use so that definitely goes onto the truck but then you just estimate based on what you assume the location to be.
 
I always assume I am going to need the biggest source possible. IT is easy to scrim it or cut it but you will never get more out of a light without enough power.
 
Experience: knowing what the end effect you want, and knowing what lights can accomplish that effect.

Advice I was given from an ASC member, was to know how to use what you have - in essence, choose versatile lamps and know what they are capable of - this cinematographer made his own florescent lamps with kino ballasts and uses them for ~80% of his shots.

Its probably better to own a half dozen fresnels than one or two of every light in existence. I find myself always going to baby fresnels because that's what I've been using since film school and I know how they handle.
 
I think working with a good gaffer/key grip would be good for you.
Go scout with them, talk to them about what you want and they can help you put together your equipment list.
 
I don't know how DP's with decades of experience do it...

But I prefer just rent a truck, even if it's a one-ton or something because it will come with the basics. If we're talking a standard sit-down type drama, a basic lighting and grip truck will do it, maybe with a couple 1200 HMI's thrown in there, especially if we need to shoot DAY scenes at night (sure makes the AD/UPM/Producer happy when you tell them you can do that).

If I had to go into a job with little information about the kind of scenes to light, I'd usually request a few Babies with Chimaeras, a Mighty or two, 2 x 4-long Kinos, 2 x 4-short Kinos, at least one 1200 or a couple 575W HMI's, and maybe a few inkies or tweenies, although it's usually easier, like Paul said, to scrim down a bigger source than bust out a different fixture. That package will cover everything from lighting a garage to look dingy to lighting a banquet hall to look opulent. I've lit almost all of the films I've shot with that lighting package.

When it comes to grip equipment, the more the merrier. Sometimes all you need is a few 4x4 reflectors, some opal, and a white card, and you can shoot outside in the sun all day long with adequate fill.

Grip also means camera grip, though, so if you have any dolly or jib shots planned, you'll want that on the truck, too, and that means the dolly, skates, offset, tracks, cribbing, apples, etc. This is when a good slider can come in handy, if the camera move is unambitious.

Usually, if the budget is really small, I just request apples, c-stands, sandbags, a couple flag kits, and cartellinis from the Producer. I can rig practically any situation with that package, and it's absolutely dirt cheap to rent.
 
It's like the old saying. It's better to have and not need, than need and not have. Like Paul Hudson above stated, bring extra, you can always diffuse, scrim, cut, or bounce it.

I like to light with one main source, as a key, usually to simulate a window, or some other main source. I can't tell you how many times we put lights outside a house and shine them through a window for our key. Then of course, the smaller fills or practicals for added depth and look were going for.
 
Andrew Luczenczyn said:
Advice I was given from an ASC member, was to know how to use what you have - in essence, choose versatile lamps and know what they are capable of - this cinematographer made his own florescent lamps with kino ballasts and uses them for ~80% of his shots.
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This is something I agree on. I own a set of Coollights flo-lights, which are amazing lights. I can get pretty hard light from them, to very nice soft-light. They're lights that I know by heart and have them do what I want. For just about anything I do I bring them, an Arri 300W Fresnel (perfect for backlight/kick) and some reflectors to do just about anything. Sometimes I bring some larger lights (a set of Blondies that I own or rent some HMIs) to give me some extra flood, but my main kit gives me all I need.

And Matty_g's comment about scouting with a gaffer is really worth it. Having been there you can look at where you might need to cover up, hang lights and so on. This gives you a lot!
 
Roger Deakins did some work with three read heads.. Yeah all depends on what you want to achieve. For example if you get a huge 20k light you are going to need a lot of diffusion, flags scrims cutters etc.. 650W are great for small budgets and using 2k maybe open faced or 1.2k hmi for sunlight or a main key maybe flagged off to give some definition to the face

Hope that helps?
 
Matty_g said:
I think working with a good gaffer/key grip would be good for you.
Go scout with them, talk to them about what you want and they can help you put together your equipment list.
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And if you dont have either for your job, go scout for yourself. It makes a huge difference having seen the various locations you'll be shooting. Go to Arris website and find their lighting calculator... It made a huge difference to me on my latest job. Production wanted to rent 650 / 800w hmis. Had I not seen the location I might have let them get them instead of the 1.2 k and 2k lamps we ended up getting :-)
 
It's all about the photometrics. Figure out what you want it to look like, what stop you want to shoot at, what gels you want to use. Scout your location, look up the photometrics, check out this link...

http://negativespaces.squarespace.c...ired-shift-values-for-gels-and-diffusion.html

It does come down to experience in the end, but the more you light bigger spaces the more math becomes involved and the more it's just lighting by numbers.

Just do a lot of prep for every job, be sure to always scout, think of a plan well ahead of time and test everything. You'll still make mistakes, but they'll get smaller and smaller as long as you're prepared.

Also, the best advice I've ever received: Always bring EVERYTHING.
 
RyanT said:
Also, the best advice I've ever received: Always bring EVERYTHING.
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Can't tell you how many times a friend has called me up asking me to bring my camera to shoot something. "Just the camera, you don't need any of my lighting stuff?" "No no, we're covered, just bring the camera."
Half hour in, friend says "Why are these shadows so harsh?" "BECAUSE YOU TOLD ME NOT TO BRING MY LIGHTING STUFF."
 
If you have a Grip/Electric company in town, see if you can work on a grip truck for a year. Nothing like hands on experience.

You will learn more in one year than 4 years in collage.
 
For me...
The DP looks at the shot list and storyboards, he goes on a location tour before filming. If he's experienced he'll have a pretty good idea what he needs from that.
 
David W. Jones said:
Übungen, Übungen, Übungen!
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