How can anyone really evaluate all of those mics?

S

scottfs

Well-known member
There are a lot of mics out there. Rycote, for example, lists mics that their screens and kits fit. I did a rough count. About 1,000 mics are on that list. How can anyone be sure that excellent mics aren't overlooked? How do mics get chosen as 'forum favorites'? I know that people in the field encounter various mics on the job. But are 1,000 mics encountered? Do people just ignore cheap mics? Or is there some other way of evaluating mics, perhaps by class, reputation, or otherwise?

I mean, has anyone heard of, let alone listened to, these mics? Amstrand? Beijing 747? Blue? Bock? Canford? Charter Oak? Da-Capo? Grove Tubes? Pearl?

You get my point.

Just curious.
 
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For folks into audio, a lot of those names are pretty well-known. Groove-Tubes are now owned by Guitar Center, and are called Sterling (they still make very decent stuff, though). Blue, Bock, and Charter Oak are pretty well-known...

Your point seems to be that there's a lot of gear out there, and nobody could know absolutely all of it (unless they had unlimited time and/or money, or maybe had a sweet gig reviewing that stuff on a regular basis). And it is a point well-taken. There is a lot of gear out there, much of it very expensive, much much more of it, however, getting more and more affordable every day.

People buy microphones based on the application they need them for (the job they need a mike to do), the particular specs (frequency response, polar pattern, components used to make it), price, and many times based on name-brand recognition. Nobody really knows _everything_ that's out there. There are some very good values. Many times people recommend expensive gear because that is what they are familiar with (and for the oft-cited reasons that it is good stuff, gets the job done, and makes an excellent investment that will last a long time and hold its resale value, etc., etc., etc.).

If you have $10 to buy a mike, that will limit your purchase choices considerably. Many folks will wait and save-up, others will need something right now, and buy a Nady Star-Power dynamic (actually _not a terrible mike_, and still about $10). The same is true if you have a $200, $400, $1,000, or $7,000 budget. You either buy used, or new, and you buy the closest thing to what you actually need that is realistically within your budget.

Don't worry too much about it. Technical forums that have a sizeable population of professionals involved will always see a lot of recommendations for very high-end gear. Buy what you can afford. Find out what you really need, save up, and then buy something better. In the meantime, use what you have (or can get) to its _fullest extent_.

If you are interested in buying a more expensive microphone, one way to do it is to go to a place like GC, or another larger store with a wide selection of choices, and _try_ them out! If you bring your own microphone (that you already know pretty well, and understand how it sounds and responds), then you can use that as a "control mike," to try other/newer/more expensive microphones against it. Pick one out that you like, that sounds good to you, that you can afford. Lather, rinse, repeat...

GJ
 
Some sound (pun intended) advice there, Gregg.

Look, Scott, you ask 20 people what is the best mic, chances are you will hear 20 different opinions. And that puts you back at square 1 again. The very best judge of what a mic will do for you.......is your own ears. I know that's not much help for you, but audio is highly subjective to the operator/mixers ears. You are the one that has to be pleased, initially. The director and the production staff are depending on you to deliver the best work you can. You are the audio expert on set, when you strap on the mixer/recorder and call "Sound Speed". There is a lot riding on you and you need to be sure you are doing the best with what you have. And honestly, since you are new to the sound gig (please-----this is no insult nor meant as an affront) I could hand you 10 grand worth of gear and your results wouldn't be any better than with 500 dollars worth of gear. You are still really new to sound, and you have to learn so much technique still (For example, without looking it up, what is 'gain staging' or a 'high/low mix'?) Not trying to put you on the spot here, but since you are new to audio, I think your questions should be more about technique than gear. There are guys here who have been working the field for years, and their advice about "x gear" or "y mic" may be extremely valid for their experience level........ well, you don't sound like your ears are there yet for the real pricey stuff and be able to tell the difference. And count your blessings for that. But it will come about when you can put your finger on an issue and say "I need to replace this mic and/or this mixer because of this......." because YOU can hear it. Until then, learn with what you can afford now. Other would say hold out until you can afford this or that. And I totally disagree with this philosophy. Because you are missing out on good "hands on" experience while waiting to afford something. You can learn great technique even with the worst gear.

As you can afford it, you acquire gear to replace what YOU think is sub-standard through YOUR ears. You will find that substandard gear in your kit eventually, we all do, as your ears and knowledge increase. I have been doing sound with a degree in the subject since 2004, and I still find inadequacies in many "pro" gear and recordings, including my own.

Do like Gregg suggests, go audition equipment and see if it will do the job for YOU, not for anyone else. LOL, and when you find the mic you love, you become voice #21.
 
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A lot of it comes down to mic manufacturers that have a proven track record for producing quality products. A lot of it comes down to how manufacturers market their products. Someone could be making the greatest shotgun mic in the world that sells for $400, but if they don't get the word out, nobody is going to know about it. Rode mics have become popular because they are a reasonably good mic for a cheap price, and they have been able to market themselves to get the word out. Sometimes a mic manufacturer gets lucky enough to have a high end production sound mixer try their product, and they get popular by word of mouth. I will say this, the tried and true "go-to" mics are that way for a reason. When someone buys a 416, they know what they are getting, and know they can trust the company that made the mic to stand behind their product. That is HUGE when your gear is what can get you fired from a job if it fails (sadly, I've seen this happen).
 
davefisk said:
That is HUGE when your gear is what can get you fired from a job if it fails (sadly, I've seen this happen).
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He's not doing sound for a career, Dave. He is doing it for fun and helping his friends out, per his other posts. Which is admirable, if you ask me.
 
Chadfish said:
I've got the perfect mic for fun! It's an "all arounder" I got for a decent price.
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????????????? Is this helpful? If you can't contribute positive info............let's not start stuff. M'Kay?

Edit: Scott, maybe I should explain my position better for you. You are getting into sound, and it is fun. But my philosophy on this is if you are going to do it, you might as well learn about it and have an education in it (even if it is self taught) so that you can be the best you can be at it.

Sure, you can go out and buy this or that based on a recommendation. And you will get those purists out there that say only buy this or that. That is their opinions. But when I talk to another sound guy, and I find out that he bought top notch everything his first go-round, I view him as not so experienced. Because I know if I talk to him about other gear that may be less priced than what he has, and he rattles off specs and quotes others saying how bad it is, my question to him is "But have you used it?" Usually the answer is "no". And that tells me he may be good with a particular piece of gear, he is not well-rounded as an audio guy.

Yes there are less quality mics/gear out there. But just listening to people on a forum saying it is bad, and allowing that to influence your education as an engineer (hobbyist or not), is not doing you a service. If you actually try the gear out and find it acceptable to your standards and ears, what does that say? Your ears are wrong or they were wrong? Could be either, could be both. But now you have come away from the experience with hard knowledge, not just parroting what someone else says. You have the tools to speak with experience about a piece of gear.

That is why I am so strongly opinionated towards learning on lower tier gear. You educate your ears, believe me when you can tell the difference between x and y and talk about it from a position of hands-on experience, it makes you a real asset. Some people cannot do that.
 
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Yes there are there are thousands of mics, but only a few are oriented towards film and video. The larger manufacturers market mics that cater to the needs of film and video, but they produce a wide variety of other mics that don't have everyday application. The needs of most smaller audio projects for video, can be covered by a shotgun, a hyper-cardioid, and a lav, so if you look at the offerings of the major manufacturers for those styles, that is what gets recommended and sold. For example, if you look at shotguns from AT, Rode and Sennheiser, they will offer a couple of lines with maybe a few different lengths and that is about it. Folks working on features, music, or specialty projects will need a lot more mic types and reach out past those three basic types I mentioned.

Grant
 
Oops - my bad. Didn't take notice of the OP's handle. Just adding levity. But seriously, there are the recommended mics, and there are the non recommended mics that CAN work to some extent. I did an experiment where I used the absolute wrong mic (lavs) to record a whole band, and it didn't turn out too bad really. One can make any mic work somewhat, if good positioning is achieved. And yeah there are a lot of mics out there, but relatively few aimed at video. My shotguns, hyper, and lav do not get any studio time because there are mics specifically designed for that.
 
Thanks for the replies. I guess my post was prompted when I looked at the Rycote page for a windscreen for my me66. I just couldn't believe there were so many mics! I mean, it was astounding! I am not looking to get into this as a career, but I do want to get good sound. I will be terribly honest with you. I have a cheap AT lav, a slightly more expensive Sony lav, my me66, an AT shotgun that sounds pretty good (can't remember #), and an EV 635 for handheld Man on the Street interviews.

I don't do the editing on the films I've worked on. I do the best I can with technique, and, yes, I learn new things every day. I've also learn a lot from people here on this board. (I came here because the 'indie' boards don't know as much as you all do.)

I TOTALLY agree that technique and experience go a long way to making good sound. I've learned to tie the cables down on my boom pole (yes, I have a real one to replace the painter's pole that made noise when you moved it), twisting it to follow dialog from different actors, asked the director for several takes to mic each actor separately when they went through a scent (that helped a LOT), and so on.

And I agree that marketing is oh-so-important. In a former life, I was a partner is a small furniture manufacturing business. We did pretty well based on low cost and good quality, but once you out-grow word-of-mouth, you do have to advertise and market.

Anyway, I am looking for an indoor mic, and I've read a lot on this board, and probably will get an AT 4053b, especially if I can find it used at a great price. Now, I just have to find the money to do it.
 
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Doc Bernard said:
He's not doing sound for a career, Dave. He is doing it for fun and helping his friends out, per his other posts. Which is admirable, if you ask me.
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Right. I'm just trying to explain why of the myriad of microphones out there, people gravitate towards certain mics. I'm a firm believer that if someone is going stuff just for fun and to learn, there is no need to get the most expensive stuff, but stuff that works and doesn't cost an arm and a leg. Brilliant creativity often times comes out of necessity from having limited gear and experimenting. Plus, it's one of the best ways to learn the craft.
 
scottfs said:
I mean, has anyone heard of, let alone listened to, these mics? Amstrand? Beijing 747? Blue? Bock? Canford? Charter Oak? Da-Capo? Grove Tubes? Pearl?
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Yes, I have heard of most of these.

And it's "Amstrad" (cheap) and "Groove Tubes" (good).

Blue are good and affordable (Latvian I think), Canford are a UK company and their own stuff is good and affordable. Bock is good, Charter Oak are good, Da-Capo are OK, Pearl is very good (under-rated I think).

Beijing 747 sounds Chinese and cheap - this is the one I have not heard of.
 
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