Honda generator question

T

TMFilms

Well-known member
I am thinking about buying a Honda EU6500i generator and would want to use it to run my 2.5k HMIs or a 5k Arri. I know it will work fine for the 2.5k's but since it only has 2 30A circuits I am wondering how to power the 5K, my thought was to take and make an adaptor that goes from 2 male 30A twist lock plugs to 1 60A female bates, will this work?


Thanks
Travis
 
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Make sure that plant will provide correct AC power for your HMI fixture. You might need "true sine wave" AC power for your HMI.

You can't get the 40+ amps you need for the 5K unless that plant provides it from one circuit. It's not possible to pull half of the current from one 30 amp circuit and half from the other if you wire them in parallel. I suppose you could try using the neutral leg from one circuit and the hot leg from the other. That should give you 60 amps. Let us know if it works...

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How can you power the 2.5kw HMIs...are you somehow modding this to have a crystal sync? I have a 2.5kw HMI and I've been scared off by people telling me you have to do that or you'll get flicker.
 
I have thought long and hard about everything and I am going to just put a 240v bulb in the 5k and power it off of the 30A 240v circuit when I use it with the generator. As for the 2.5k HMIs I have electronic ballasts so the flicker issue is a non issue but even with mag ballasts, my experience is that the electronic frequency regulator on the Honda EU series generators provides clean enough power for Mag ballasts to not flicker.

Hope this helps Shawn, feel free to PM me wiht any questions you may have.
 
"You can't get the 40+ amps you need for the 5K unless that plant provides it from one circuit. It's not possible to pull half of the current from one 30 amp circuit and half from the other if you wire them in parallel."

I run a rental house in Boston by the name of ScreenLight and Grip and we have introduced a Honda EU6500is Gen Set System that offers 7500W of power in a Single 120V circuit. Which is enough power to run not only your 2.5kw, but also 4kw, or even 6kw HMIs. It can run a Mole 6kw Six Light (6x 1kw Par 64 Globes), the new powerful Mole 5k Quartz Par (no 240V bulb available), or a complete HD Lighting Pkg. we have developed to maximize the production capability of our new Gen Set System.

The complete system consists of a film style 60A Full Power Transformer/Distro and modified Honda EU6500is generator. If you plug everything into the modified EU6500is generator through the 60A Transformer Distro, the system is capable of simultaneously powering not only a 2.5kw HMI, but also the 1200, & 800 Watt HMI Pars of our HD Lighting Pkg., plus a couple of Kino Flo Parabeam 400s, Parabeam 200s, and a Flat Head 80. Given the light sensitivity of HD cameras and film these days, this constitutes a complete location lighting package.

If it sounds like I’m hyping the Honda EU6500is generator, it is not because we rent and sell them. As a Gaffer of a lot of tight budgeted historical documentaries for PBS’ American Experience and the History Channel, I think these machines are a major development in portable power.

For example, the micro processor controlled Eco-Throttle of the EU6500is makes it not only more fuel efficient but also incredibly quiet. The Eco-Throttle automatically adjusts the generator's engine speed to produce only the power needed for the application in use. Traditional generators have to run at a constant 3600 RPM to produce stable 60 hertz (cycle) electricity. Whereas, the Inverter Technology of the Honda Inverter Generators enable them to run at much slower RPMs while maintaining frequency and power for the requested load. Because the engine does not have to run at full speed constantly, the Eco-Throttle reduces fuel consumption by up to 40%. But, of greater importance for film applications, not running at full speed constantly, the engine is much quieter. Honda's inverter generators are substantially quieter than traditional models.

By utilizing a separate triple chamber construction, a centralized intake/exhaust system and the Eco-Throttle design, the EU6500is achieves a noise reduction of ten decibels and is half as loud as the comparable EM7000is and ES6500 generators typically found at lighting rental houses. Honda's EU Series generators operate at 34 to 44 dBA at 50 ft. - well below what is required for trouble free location recording.

The sine-wave inverter technology of the Honda EU6500is provides smoother, higher quality power that is ideal for frequency and voltage fluctuation-sensitive equipment such as HD Camcorders, laptop computers, back up hard drives, and HMI ballasts. Because it passes the power its generates through an inverter, the Honda EU6500is is rock solid and its’ frequency varies only hundreths of a cycle which eliminates the need for costly crystal governors.

Use these links for more details about our new system:

Modified Honda EU6500is Gen-set System
http://www.screenlightandgrip.com/html/hd_plug-n-play_pkg.html
http://www.screenlightandgrip.com/html/hdfilmstrip4lg.html

HD Plug & Play Package:
http://www.screenlightandgrip.com/html/hd_plug-n-play_pkg.html

- Guy Holt, New England Gaffer & Rental House Owner
 
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Really good information, thank you, nejuicer. What's your opinion of the Honda EU3000is which I own? I use it with a 1200W HMI PAR with mag ballast and have no trouble with flicker with 180 deg (1/48) shutters on the Red One and EX1.
 
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I am glad you found the information helpful. In regard to your Honda EU3000is, it offers a lot of the same features, like Eco-Throttle, as the EU6500is. In fact the EU3000is is the quietest generator Honda makes – even quieter than the EU1000is & EU2000is (go figure). And like the EU6500is, the EU3000is features Honda's sine-wave inverter technology so it also provides smoother, higher quality power than conventional (non-inverter) generators. With their inverter technology the Honda EU series generators achieve an unparalleled waveform distortion factor of less than 2.5%.

Honda's inverter technology accomplishes this by taking the raw power produced by the generator and passes it through a microprocessor controlled multi-step process to condition it. First, the generator's combination flywheel/alternator produces high voltage multiphase AC power. The AC power is then converted to DC. Finally the DC power is converted back to AC by an inverter. The inverter cleans and stabilizes the power to make it equal to or better than household power. A special microprocessor controls the entire process, as well as the speed of the engine - eliminating the need for crystal sync governors which is why you have not had any problems with your 1200W magnetic ballast.

There is a popular misconception that you should only use electronic ballasts with portable generators. Where that is true with conventional generators without crystal governors, it is not true of inverter generators for the reasons above. In fact, besides the extra bulk and weight of magnetic ballasts, the smaller magnetic ballasts (575-2500W) offer the distinct advantage of being less expensive and drawing less power than the commonly available electronic equivalents. Operating at 120V, a 1.2kw Par with non-power factor corrected electronic ballast will draw 18-19 amps verses the 13.5 amps of a magnetic ballast. Where the duplex Edison outlet on the EU3000is is only one circuit rated for 20 amps, if you plug a 1.2kw Par with non-power factor corrected electronic ballasts into the Edison outlet you have maxed out that circuit. In fact, you have maxed out the generator unless you wire an Edison-to-30A Twist-lock adapter that will enable you to plug into the 30A Twist-lock receptacle on the generator. Without the benefit of a transformer/distro like the one we make for the EU6500is (see below for more details), you will have to very carefully balance the load between the Edison outlets and the 30A/120V Twistlock outlet to avoid overloading the generator.

While older HMIs are less expensive to purchase or rent, there have been some very recent advances in HMI electronic ballast technology that make the newest equipment worth the extra money when it comes to lighting with portable generators. For example the HMI ballast manufacturer Power to Light has introduced Power Factor Correction into 1200 & 800 Watt ballasts. We are pairing these new ballasts with the Joker 800 and Mole 1200 pars.
The Power to Light Power Factor Corrected (PFC) 1200W electronic ballast draws only 11 Amps verses the 18 Amps required by standard electronic ballasts. Where a Kino Flo Parabeam 400 draws only 2 amps, that 8 Amp difference between using the new Power to Light PFC 1200W electronic ballast and standard 1200W electronic ballasts, can mean the difference of running four Parabeam 400s on a portable generator or not – I think you would have to agree that is a major boost in production capability.

Taking advantage of recent advances in lighting technology like Power to Light’s introduction of Power Factor Correction into 1200 & 800 Watt ballasts, we have developed a special HD lighting package we call the HD Plug and Play Pkg.(HD P&P Pkg.) When combined with the tremendous production capability of the Honda EU series generators, our HD P&P Pkg. offers pretty impressive production capability for HD Digital Cinema production. Use this links for more details about our new system: http://www.screenlightandgrip.com/html/hd_plug-n-play_pkg.html

Now for the one down-side to the EU3000is – it is a 3000W generator and does not offer 240V single phase output. Honda offers a paralleling kit that will enable you to synchronize two EU3000is to create a single 240V single phase circuit, but the set up is cumbersome and expensive when you compare it to the modified EU6500is and 60A Full Power Transformer/Distro set up we offer that provides an unparalleled 7500W in a single circuit. Where the Honda EU3000is generator does not have a 240V output there is not an opportunity to obtain the benefits of using a step-down transformer to access the full power capacity of the generator in single 120V circuit like we do in our system with the EU6500is (use this link for more details about using step-down transformers to access the full power capacity of a portable generator: http://www.screenlightandgrip.com/html/hdfilmstrip4lg.html.) The 30A/120V three pin twist-lock receptacle on the Honda EU3000i gives you access to the full power of that generator.

This is probably more information than you need, but I hope you found some of it helpful.

- Guy Holt, New England Gaffer and Lighting & Grip Rental House Owner.
 
I like to get more than what I need. thanks so much for posting all this tasty information!
 
Yeah man, thanks for that epic amount of info lol. My brain is still trying to digest it
 
Guy, thanks a million for that detailed response. I've read it twice and copied and pasted it to the file where I keep real nuggets on lighting and electric.
 
The conventional wisdom regarding portable generators no longer true

The conventional wisdom regarding portable generators no longer true

I run a rental house in Boston by the name of ScreenLight and Grip and we rent and sell small portable generators for film production. The conventional wisdom regarding portable generators reflected in these posts went out the window with the recent development of inverter generators and power factor correction (PFC) in smaller (575-1200W) HMI ballasts. It is now possible to get 7500W of clean stable power in a single 120V circuit from a portable generator. And, when you add up the incremental savings in power to be gained by using PFC HMI ballasts, add to it the energy efficiency of light sources like LEDs and Kino Flos, and combine it with the increased light sensitivity of film stocks and digital imaging systems, you have what, I would argue, amounts to a paradigm shift in lighting with portable generators.

In the past, it was not possible to reliably operate more than a couple of 1200w HMIs on a portable generator. The primary factors limiting the use of HMIs on portable generators has been their inefficient use of power and the harmonic noise they throw back into the power stream. The adverse effects of the harmonic distortion generated by HMI ballasts (see power waveform below left), can take the form of overheating and failing production equipment, circuit breaker trips, overheating of the neutral wire, and instability of the generator voltage and frequency. Severe harmonic noise can also damage HD digital cinema production equipment, create ground loops, and create radio frequency (RF) interference.

waveform_AVR-Inv_Pkg.jpg


If one knows how, it is possible to take advantage of recent technological advances in HMI ballast design and power generation, to create clean stable set power (like that in the power waveform above right) that is capable of reliably operating larger lights (HMIs up to 6kw or Quartz lights up to 5kw), or more smaller lights, off of portable gas generators than has ever been possible before.

For example, on a recent independent short shot on the Red, I used a modified Honda EU6500is Generator to power a lighting package that consisted of a 2.5kw, 1200, & 800 HMI Pars, a couple of Kino Flo ParaBeam 400s, a couple of ParaBeam 200s, and a Flat Head 80. Given the light sensitivity of the Red Camera, this was all the light we needed to light a large night exterior.

But, given the wide variety of generators manufactured, it is important to understand the benefits and drawbacks to each when it comes to their use in motion picture production. Especially, given that the increasing use of personal computers and microprocessor-controlled recording equipment in HD production has created an unprecedented demand for clean, reliable power on set at a time when the trend in lighting is toward light sources that can generate dirty power. For this reason, I have tried to compile a comprehensive survey of the prevalent lighting and portable power generation equipment. Test
how well they work together and make the results available to the production community. Where Harry Box, the author of the Set Lighting Technician’s Handbook is interested in incorporating this material in the 4th edition of the handbook I am making it available for peer review first.

I feel the need to make this material available prior to publication in the handbook because specific details of the inner workings of the latest portable power generation equipment is in short supply and harmonic noise has only recently become an issue. Why is harmonic distortion suddenly an issue in motion picture production? Because, the power generation and electrical distribution systems developed for motion picture production were never designed to deal with the abundance of non-linear loads like the electronic HMI and Fluorescent lighting ballasts so prevalent in production today. It’s a problem that has only recently begun because of the increasing use of these types of non-linear lighting loads. The problem is being further compounded by the increasing prevalence on set of sophisticated electronic production equipment like computers, hard drives and HD monitors which are themselves sources of harmonic distortion.


In the past, attention was given to generator features such as automatic voltage regulation and speed regulation. But, given the rise in production problems associated with harmonic noise, an increasingly more important feature today is the quality of the generated power waveform and how well it interacts with today's light sources. For that reason, I did a series of tests that have resulted in oscilloscope shots of the power waveforms of different light sources on different portable generators. I have attempted to interpreted the artifacts of harmonic distortion exhibited in these power waveforms, but where this is a relatively new issue, I welcome the input of other film/video production professionals so that the material can be as complete as possible for the handbook.

To see the results of my tests, use the link below to our website where I have posted my analysis of the compatibility of the latest lighting and portable power generation technology

www.screenlightandgrip.com/html/emailnewsletter_generators.html

I welcome any and all feed back.

- Guy Holt, Gaffer, ScreenLight & Grip, Boston
 
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