I've been researching this a lot and can't seem to find an answer. In professional television and movies, the audio has a rich sound with no room tone. Is this from higher end mics/recording (thousands of $$) or more on the processing end. I've used soundtrack pro and sound booth and watched numerous tuturials on noise removal. Nothing has the "hollywood" sound to it however. Any advice or samples?
Hollywood Style Sound
- Thread starter Redsack
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Noiz2
Sound Ninja
Well now that is a lot of misinformation.
#1 it's Foley not foley and Foley is not ambient sound.
#2 not a lot of Dialog is recorded afterwards AKA ADR, very little is.
#3 while it's true that there are a lot of tracks I'm not sure "artificial" is the right word. That would imply that in a narrative feature there is anything that is not "artificial". The sound is probably one of the least "artificial" things in a film.
To the OP. Look at the Stickys, there is a whole section on post and what makes a film sound like a Hollywood film. Mostly it is time and skill, money helps you get both.
#1 it's Foley not foley and Foley is not ambient sound.
#2 not a lot of Dialog is recorded afterwards AKA ADR, very little is.
#3 while it's true that there are a lot of tracks I'm not sure "artificial" is the right word. That would imply that in a narrative feature there is anything that is not "artificial". The sound is probably one of the least "artificial" things in a film.
To the OP. Look at the Stickys, there is a whole section on post and what makes a film sound like a Hollywood film. Mostly it is time and skill, money helps you get both.
Petros Kolyvas
Well-known member
QUOTE=Noiz2;2174084]Well now that is a lot of misinformation.
#2 not a lot of Dialog is recorded afterwards AKA ADR, very little is.
To the OP. Look at the Stickys, there is a whole section on post and what makes a film sound like a Hollywood film. Mostly it is time and skill, money helps you get both.[/QUOTE]
Depends what movie it is - Action , you will get allot of ADR , less action you will get less .
1 billion a day actors , you will get less ADR as the production will make allot to bring him 1 day less to the Studio .( know about at lest one production paid over 350000 to close all businesses 2 streets around the location because the sound as the actor was 3 times more a day ).
Some actors will not allow place wireless or will make every afford not to cooperate and get additional ADR days .
Non known actors or low wages ones - more ADR as it cost very little or nothing .
There is no rules in that business , people trying to make their best but sometimes it impossible or the picture is much important .
about HOLLYWOOD sound - i don't like it , usually it super accurate and sterilized so the audience will get every word without minim afford .Person who goes under the tables sounds exactly as he was sitting on the top ,the American way ;-)
Sorry ,i prefer British o French mix where something of the real atoms still ringing in my ears.
To get good sound, you need money - other wise you get what you can get .
#2 not a lot of Dialog is recorded afterwards AKA ADR, very little is.
To the OP. Look at the Stickys, there is a whole section on post and what makes a film sound like a Hollywood film. Mostly it is time and skill, money helps you get both.[/QUOTE]
Depends what movie it is - Action , you will get allot of ADR , less action you will get less .
1 billion a day actors , you will get less ADR as the production will make allot to bring him 1 day less to the Studio .( know about at lest one production paid over 350000 to close all businesses 2 streets around the location because the sound as the actor was 3 times more a day ).
Some actors will not allow place wireless or will make every afford not to cooperate and get additional ADR days .
Non known actors or low wages ones - more ADR as it cost very little or nothing .
There is no rules in that business , people trying to make their best but sometimes it impossible or the picture is much important .
about HOLLYWOOD sound - i don't like it , usually it super accurate and sterilized so the audience will get every word without minim afford .Person who goes under the tables sounds exactly as he was sitting on the top ,the American way ;-)
Sorry ,i prefer British o French mix where something of the real atoms still ringing in my ears.
To get good sound, you need money - other wise you get what you can get .
Ok Noiz2, my bad (choice of words). What I as trying to get across was that movie sound really is not recorded while shot. Only clean dialog, and often not even that (yes!, silent shooting while he director yells directions or whatever.) All the natural sounds like footsteps, door slams and clothing rustle are added afterwards. This is so because it would be practically impossible to get all the real action sounds recorded clearly without showing a dozen mics in the frame. And usually something else than a real sound sounds better than the real one. That's why Hollywood movies have a "clear" and "rich" sound, sometimes too clear and rich, at least compared to home movies and small budget indies.
ADR: some big films can be 95% ADR, The Lord of the Rings is one such example.
ADR: some big films can be 95% ADR, The Lord of the Rings is one such example.
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Noiz2
Sound Ninja
I may be the only one posting on this thread that has actually done post on big budget Hollywood films. PR departments love to talk about how much ADR, how much was spent to create XYZ, most of that is marketing BS. It's really funny to read or watch a "behind the scenes" piece on something you have worked on. I'm not going to defend the sound it is what it is. Anything can be over done. If your trying to sell in the US market it's the standard that the audience is going to compare you to.
The upside to the "Hollywood" sound, when done well, is a total and consistent world for the film to take place in. Done badly it's a video game on a big screen. Micro budget films tend to do none of it and it's often very hard to stay "in" those films because you are constantly reminded that you are watching a film. The "world" of the film is inconsistent and odd problems randomly pop up and grab your attention. Some times it's the lack of sound rather than a specific problem that just screams "unfinished". The world needs to be "real" and that is I think what some of the negative is about. You can make a world that is too clean and perfect, but then you have also really failed in creating the "world" of the film. This happens with CG all the time. Compare StarWars Episode 4 to episode 1.
As to ADR, and this has been talked about before, Hollywood "shoots" a lot of ADR but in fact not a lot get put in the film. There are exceptions. Films with very heavy CG or crazy costumes might well use a lot of ADR, but it is the exception. I worked on a big action film with a huge budget and we shot maybe 90% -95% of the script in ADR, but we only used 20% - to maybe 25% in the mix.
What gets shot and why varies a lot by the budget but the pricey busy actors are more likely to get covered if there is any chance you will need the ADR because as pricey as it is to get them in the studio now, if they get on another film you may not be able to get them at all and that will cost you a LOT more. I can call and find out but I doubt very seriously that 95% of what was on screen in LOTR was ADR. It is always possible, but I would be very surprised.
Maybe more to the point is that action films are a relatively small part of the pie (compared to all the other films coming out). The OP didn't ask specifically about action films he asked about how films get that "Hollywood" sound. Out side of action films ADR is a much rarer thing. Most Hollywood films have little or no ADR.
And yes, if everything but production dialog is what you were talking about as "artificial", it is. As a rule nothing but dialog is used from production. Sets don't often sound like the world of the film and all of those actor sounds make editing more difficult.
The upside to the "Hollywood" sound, when done well, is a total and consistent world for the film to take place in. Done badly it's a video game on a big screen. Micro budget films tend to do none of it and it's often very hard to stay "in" those films because you are constantly reminded that you are watching a film. The "world" of the film is inconsistent and odd problems randomly pop up and grab your attention. Some times it's the lack of sound rather than a specific problem that just screams "unfinished". The world needs to be "real" and that is I think what some of the negative is about. You can make a world that is too clean and perfect, but then you have also really failed in creating the "world" of the film. This happens with CG all the time. Compare StarWars Episode 4 to episode 1.
As to ADR, and this has been talked about before, Hollywood "shoots" a lot of ADR but in fact not a lot get put in the film. There are exceptions. Films with very heavy CG or crazy costumes might well use a lot of ADR, but it is the exception. I worked on a big action film with a huge budget and we shot maybe 90% -95% of the script in ADR, but we only used 20% - to maybe 25% in the mix.
What gets shot and why varies a lot by the budget but the pricey busy actors are more likely to get covered if there is any chance you will need the ADR because as pricey as it is to get them in the studio now, if they get on another film you may not be able to get them at all and that will cost you a LOT more. I can call and find out but I doubt very seriously that 95% of what was on screen in LOTR was ADR. It is always possible, but I would be very surprised.
Maybe more to the point is that action films are a relatively small part of the pie (compared to all the other films coming out). The OP didn't ask specifically about action films he asked about how films get that "Hollywood" sound. Out side of action films ADR is a much rarer thing. Most Hollywood films have little or no ADR.
And yes, if everything but production dialog is what you were talking about as "artificial", it is. As a rule nothing but dialog is used from production. Sets don't often sound like the world of the film and all of those actor sounds make editing more difficult.
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This will get you most of the way there.
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?174562-Compilation-of-Post-Audio-Information
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?174562-Compilation-of-Post-Audio-Information
Steve_Karl
Well-known member
TheJetBlack
Active member
There was a lot of ADR in Public Enemies.
Rippie
Veteran
Actually from what I've read he went through incredible lengths TO use the production sound. (when he really shouldn't have)
He did a terrible job of micromanaging that mix though.
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TheJetBlack
Active member
What's TO?
TheJetBlack
Active member
How do you micromanage a mix? Are you saying he hired a cheap sound editor?
Rippie
Veteran
No, going by the many items I've read about this disastrous mix he sat there and picked apart everything instead of allowing his re-recording mixers to do their jobs.
Notice during the movie how all of a sudden a single word would be way louder than the rest of the sentence? He thought it was adding emphasis to a word.
Sorry buddy, changing the volume doesn't change the inflection of the word all it does it make it sound like a mistake.
Supposedly most of his audio post teams never make it more than 1 movie before they don't want to deal with him again.
Here is an article about the post work.
http://mixonline.com/post/features/audio_public_enemies/
You have to read between the lines and realize the quotes about him are not compliments.
Quotes like "I saw first-hand the challenges that Ed Novick had to deal with, and I'm amazed how well the original production tracks turned out. That was important because this is the first movie I've ever mixed without premixing the dialog first."
I know I read somewhere from someone who has worked with him who said he is hard of hearing. (wears a hearing aid?)
Hillarious that he would have the mixers change things by 1/10 of a db or have the mixers remove the little volume edit dots on the timeline because he said he could hear them..
TheJetBlack
Active member
It does sound a little silly, but he's got studio funding and he's Michael Mann -- so he can do whatever he wants. lol.
Noiz2
Sound Ninja
I worked with someone who was on the original Miami Vive and talked about the time he pulled a 45 out and fired it in his office so the sound team would know what a real gun sounded like. They apparently managed to cover their ears quickly enough, he on the other hand blew out the hearing in one ear. As I understand it he is literally deaf in one ear.
There was a long thread on the mix on the DUC. MM was a nightmare in the mix.
Not counting films that are just to loud to listen to Public Enemies is the worst sound mix I have ever heard on a film over say $20,000 total budget. I saw it with some other editors at an academy screening and everyone was just shocked at how bad it sounded. It's a shame because people, if they don't know the back story, are going to blame the sound crew.
There was a long thread on the mix on the DUC. MM was a nightmare in the mix.
Not counting films that are just to loud to listen to Public Enemies is the worst sound mix I have ever heard on a film over say $20,000 total budget. I saw it with some other editors at an academy screening and everyone was just shocked at how bad it sounded. It's a shame because people, if they don't know the back story, are going to blame the sound crew.
TheJetBlack
Active member
I personally really like the movie, so I overlooked the obvious bad mixing. The scene where Purvis gives the speech to the press is where it's most obvious, IMO. It was somewhat low and suddenly at the end the volume got turned up and I could actually hear audio noise for a split second. Hahah.
Even some shots were out of focus and a little too grainy/underexposed -- IMO. Maybe I'm wrong. Or it was intentional. Either way, it's still a good movie.
Even some shots were out of focus and a little too grainy/underexposed -- IMO. Maybe I'm wrong. Or it was intentional. Either way, it's still a good movie.
TheJetBlack
Active member
rofl.