Hmi???
- Thread starter DanHD
- Start date
puredrifting
Major Contributor
It's also economy of scale, like everything else in this business. If everyone used HMIs and you could pick them up at Costco, they would be $300.00.
I wonder if we start to request HMIs of all of the Costco managers if they would do a big buy and stock them? ;-)
Dan
I wonder if we start to request HMIs of all of the Costco managers if they would do a big buy and stock them? ;-)
Dan
moonlitnite
Well-known member
Well, there's also the technology and safety issues associated with HMIs. HMI requires very high voltages so it's not a simple matter of wiring 117 vac to a bulb - this requires specialized voltage conversion equipment (current limiting, sine to sqaure wave with edge rounding to prevent bulb vibration, crystal oscillator, etc) as well as careful insulation to avoid a shocking hazard. And I'd venture a guess that insurance companies figure a higher potential incidence of electrocution with HMIs, leading to higher insurance coverage for HMI manufacturers.
And yes, I'm sure puredrifting Dan's right-on about the economy of scale problem.
Regards, Michael
And yes, I'm sure puredrifting Dan's right-on about the economy of scale problem.
Regards, Michael
gco
Veteran
Because people are paying those stupid prices. I am convinced the price structure has more to do with big budget productions having plenty of cash to throw around and nothing to do with a broader potential market that has been developing over the last 10 years. Technology certainly does not excuse the pricing. True, electronic components are getting smaller and more efficient but the power conversion and pulse forming networks those components are used in, i.e. power supplies, igniters, ballasts, have been with us a very long time. Another way of saying it might be that the industry does not see any market beyond corporate production. They are comfortable where they are. Seems like at some point, this has got to change. Sooner would be better.
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moonlitnite
Well-known member
Really? We have a handful of small startups that would love to penetrate the industry if it was that cheap and easy. But even the manufacturing cost of the HMI head/ballast power cable is almost as much an entire traditional light system ($400+ for a 25 foot cable). Certainly if these were "stupid prices", others would jump in and make a fast buck...
Happy trails, Michael
puredrifting
Major Contributor
Exactly. And they are a limited market product made in very small amounts, hence the relatively high prices.
Dan
sunporchmedia
Well-known member
Richard at Coolights has made breakthrough HMI products at a fraction of "traditional" products. There are a myriad of cost factors, many of which he's discussed at length.
Economy of scale is one, price and availability of off-the-shelf high quality components like ballasts is another, the cost of the lamps (and availability in reasonable quality, CRI and color temp) yet another. Yes, they are a more complicated and less mature technology than tungsten or even fluorescent fixtures.
Richard is committed to solving as many of those challenges as possible, in order to present a product line that is reasonable cost and high quality. He even manufactures and ships in optimized "batches" to maximize his cost-efficiency. It is interesting to notice that, even though he charges a lot less for his HMI's than other manufacturers, they are still quite high compared to the tungsten and fluorescent fixtures he makes.
Economy of scale is one, price and availability of off-the-shelf high quality components like ballasts is another, the cost of the lamps (and availability in reasonable quality, CRI and color temp) yet another. Yes, they are a more complicated and less mature technology than tungsten or even fluorescent fixtures.
Richard is committed to solving as many of those challenges as possible, in order to present a product line that is reasonable cost and high quality. He even manufactures and ships in optimized "batches" to maximize his cost-efficiency. It is interesting to notice that, even though he charges a lot less for his HMI's than other manufacturers, they are still quite high compared to the tungsten and fluorescent fixtures he makes.
gco
Veteran
Don't know that anyone ever suggested going up against an established market would be cheap and easy. To the contrary, I would expect that breaking into a limited market dominated by a few large companies, each having extensive supply and distribution networks would be difficult due to the startup costs and networking involved. Also, be careful not to confuse the retail "cost" of a 25' cable with what it actually costs the manufacturer to make it. They are obviously not selling it at cost. A ballast to head cable is made of wires. It has insulation, braided reinforcement and connectors. If there is anything that justifies a $400 retail price for a 25' multi-conductor cable beyond the fact that they can sell it for that price, I would like to know about it. Also, my characterization of HMI prices as "stupid" is valid. Relatively speaking, the best "deal" I can find on a new 1.2KW HMI Fresnel is $4K from Filmgear. One single light fixture and power supply is nearly 30% more than what I paid for my camera. Ridiculous.
For those that can afford HMIs, more power to them. They've got highly desirable and useful equipment that I and many others would like to have and use. It's frustrating and unfair for little guys like me but the market is what it is. Such is life!. Sooner or later somebody is going to get over that startup hump and wake up the industry. For our sake, really would love to see that happen.
puredrifting
Major Contributor
HMIs have been popular for quite a while. I think Richard is the only attempt I have seen to even bring down the prices of HMIs. You won't see Arri, Mole, LTM or any of the other players do it unless they see Richard taking significant market share from them.
With this economy, I doubt if anyone if going to be selling many HMIs at any price in 2009.
Dan
With this economy, I doubt if anyone if going to be selling many HMIs at any price in 2009.
Dan