HMI lights? what?

P

PDX_DVX

Veteran
I did a google search and found out what HMI lights are so that I didn't have to ask here....so that's covered, but what I would like to know from some of you lighting gurus are what types of situations you would use HMI's with? And no, I'm not planning on purchasing any....way too spendy. I assume if you needed to light stuff outdoors and you couldn't use bounce, or just needed more power in addition to bounce, you would use HMI's right? What other situations are they good for? And while I'm at it, what wattage does a regular tungsten light have to be before it can be of any use outside? I assume 1k and up? This is something I have been curious about for a long time....oh yeah and for those of you who don't want to do a google search, I found a pretty good explanation of HMI lights here:

http://www.cybercollege.com/tvp030.htm

apparently it stands for "Hydrargyrum Medium Arc-length Iodide"
 
HMI...kick ass! :)

HMI...kick ass! :)

HMI's kick ass! ...we used just one on a small feature that is still being edited now for a few things. ....one example, it was night time but the script called for a shot in a church.....the stained glass was dark and had no definition at all. We blasted one side of the church from the outside with just 1 1200watt HMI and it really looked like it was daytime from inside the church the way the glass colors popped.

Another use was for a nice moonlight effect that could cover an entire area at night even if there wasn't moon light.

I honestly never worked with an HMI before this shoot but after seeing the effects it can make I am working hard on getting even just a used 1200watt. BUT they are heavy!!

If you want to check out what we did....we have a temp trailer hosted off my band's page right now for the movie Cathedral Pines. I'm working on a real website for the movie and we hope to have the "real" trailer ready soon.

If your a Monkee's fan...you may see an older Peter Tork towards the beginning of the trailer. ....we had some other well known actors but they are not on this trailer. I will post the movie info once I have it a bit more organized!!

for now, it's at http://www.klone1.com

Tony
ps: the trailer was suppose to have text in the first few seconds but we may scrap it once the new trailer is ready.....it takes about 8 seconds before it really starts.
 
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I purchased a 4K HMI fesnel off ebay on Saturday for £300!!!!!! I had to drive 250 miles to pick it up but every mile was worth it. Came with ballast and cables, and the guy stuck it up for me to show it working. Equivelent to 16,000 Watts!

Only downside of course is that it won't run off household power, so I am going to have to buuy a generator! But seeing it will be used outside anyway I am not worried.

Has anyone heard of the make though? LSD 4K HMI. Not sure if LSD is part of the Lee group. It originally came from the ITV studios in Liverpool, UK, and is a sturdy piece of kit.
 
Uses For HMI's

Uses For HMI's

I love HMI's. I find them to be very flexible, powerful and provide the most bang for the buck.

In most cases I use a single HMI 200w outside as a fill light when I am competing with the sun and need to balance the contrast between the highlight and shadow sides of the face. For more people a bigger HMI and some Dif would do the trick. I have never done really big narrative setups so I can't speak to practical HMI useage during the day.

Other exterior uses for HMI's are at night. A 1.2k Par on a roof with some steel blue gel is a perfect moonlight source. (1.2's pack a mean punch and you can run them off a 2000w putt putt.)

HMI's are also useful for interiors. Rather than gel all your windows down to 3200k, an HMI with 5600k kinos or even daylight bulbs w/ china lanterns can look great. Determining whether to gel or not varies from situation to situation. If you decide to gel you must be meticulous as any bubbles or aberrations in the gel will be picked up by the camera.

Finally, HMI's, with the right budget, can allow you to shoot interior daylight scenes at night. You'll need a snorkel lift and a genny, (plus operators, teamsters, etc.,) Park a series of 12k's on your snorkel lift and bang them through an exterior window. Inside the apartment it will look like 10AM no matter the real time.

If you have any more specific questions feel free to ask. :)

PS: I have never used tungsten outdoors during the day. I think that I have only seen them used (and used them myself) at night when the film stock or video is balanced for tungsten.
 
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wow Steve, you made out on that deal!!! ....HMI's are hard to describe.....I never knew how awesome they were until I actually used it.....for both day and night time. ....can add a ton of atmosphere in the shot!! HMI=Sweetness! :thumbsup:
 
Steve Shovlar said:
I purchased a 4K HMI fesnel off ebay on Saturday for £300!!!!!! I had to drive 250 miles to pick it up but every mile was worth it. Came with ballast and cables, and the guy stuck it up for me to show it working. Equivelent to 16,000 Watts!

Only downside of course is that it won't run off household power, so I am going to have to buuy a generator! But seeing it will be used outside anyway I am not worried.
Click to expand...

That generator is going to set you back a bit though. I have a 4.2KVA, but it is a pain in the arse. You really need a decent, electric start, super silent = £££.

Still £300 is pretty damn good!

To me HMI are perfect outdoor lights. I tend to find them too much for interiors unless it is a large space. I haven't tried the smaller ENG style HMIs though, I may look at some tomorrow.

The great thing about HMIs is their daylight colour temp. CTBing tungsten to match daylight eats up half your light and you end up using so much power and generating so much heat! If you are talking about daylight colour temp, HMIs can be considered as up to 8 times as efficient!
 
I just got done doing an HD shoot for USA Today and the WE network. We used 2 4K. 2 2K .1 5K and even a 14K they wroked so well and they are just everything. When you need alot of light it is the way to go.
 
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On the documentary we did in San Antonio each of our electricians had:

2) 200w Joker
2) 400w Joker
1) 800w Joker
1) Kino 4 Bank 3200 / 5600k
1) KIno 2 Bank 3200 / 5600k
2) Mole Tweenie
1) Mole Baby Baby

We used the 800 through windows to punch daylight when we had plenty of ambient, but little "justified" or direct sunlight in a room.

An example set-up would be in a large kitchen with the Joker punching through windows over the sink with an 1/8 or 1/4 CTO to warm it to a nice, focused afternoon look, where the window mullions would project onto the walls, cabinets and so on.

In any room that might be seen off camera (e.g., living room, dining room) we'd just shoot a Joker 200 up into a corner or onto some beadboard for a little more ambient light.

It's all about maintaining ratios with these little 1/3 cameras, and bringing the interiors up with these low-wattage HMIs is a lot easier than trying to bring every window down with ND6 or 9 plus CTO and then dealing with lighting inside anyway.

HMIs are king.

e
 
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One thing I don't think anyone has mentioned is that you have to watch your colour temp with HMIs. As the bulbs age they tend to go a little magenta and you often need to add some 1/8 or 1/4 green. It isn't a major problem, but you should be aware of it.
 
The HMI I purchased off ebay a few days ago came with two unused 4K bubbles.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7598364022

The guy is setting up a shopping channel which will start broadcasting on Sky in July. Had a huge lighting rig and had done most of the studio out with ebay wins. Had no need for the HMI as he is lighting flat with 1 million gazzillion watts of tungsten.

As for a generator, I am just starting to look. Need a 5K genny, diesel and fairly silent. Do you think something like this would be right?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/KIPOR-KDE-670...599491008QQcategoryZ46412QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
cheers
Steve
 
Steve Shovlar said:
As for a generator, I am just starting to look. Need a 5K genny, diesel and fairly silent. Do you think something like this would be right?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/KIPOR-KDE-670...599491008QQcategoryZ46412QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Click to expand...

I think it may be underpowered Steve. I can't remember exactly how they rate generators, but I think 4.5KVA = 3.6 KW. It is due to the current being out of phase of voltage (or something like that??) with AC.

I know nothing of that make. What I do know is that, in general, generators are a pain in the arse. I have used a small Honda which is the only one I could recommend but you pay for the quality.
 
Yeah, those hondas are so nice, the one I used wasn't big enough to power lights, but at 1000watts, it would have been handy to have for monitors, laptop, camera, charging batts etc etc. Super quiet too, almost like a loud sewing machine. And supposedly they put out a really clean sine wave too, so you don't have to worry about your equipment getting out of whack...
 
Two things to note about a generator, one is it a crystal synch and two the noise level. Especially if your using HMI lights you can get a flicker, not noticable to your eye but will play havoc in post. Sound speaks for it self, most of these putt putts are so loud that theres no way your going to get location sound while running one. Obviously third is if they can provide enough power for the lights you need to run.
 
a 4k HMI is pretty big . You could light outdoors with those. I've used 2k Hemi's on some shoots and gotten some great results. I used them to shoot interiors, sort of like "Cribs Videos" on MTV, for our corporation. With a big HMI like that, you can use available daylight, and pound one of those lights down from a hallway and light several people. Mix in some reflectors or bounce cards for fill and you are set. I then used some 1k babies with 1/2 CTB to fill in rim, or backlight some areas.

Jeff Patnaude:kali:
 
Thanks al the advice. Trouble with spending a lot on a genny is that it will be sitting idle 99% of the time. Probably beter to rent something decent when I need it, and extra long power cables!!
 
Steve Shovlar said:
Thanks al the advice. Trouble with spending a lot on a genny is that it will be sitting idle 99% of the time. Probably beter to rent something decent when I need it, and extra long power cables!!
Click to expand...

Yeah, and then you don't have to maintain it.

I have a 4.2KVA geni if anyone wants one. Have started it for a while but should be okay.
 
Just curious, does your HMI have a magnetic ballast or an electronic one. If it is a magnetic ballast then you may have flicker problems when used with a genny.
 
Thats a thought!
By the way there are really some good bargains to be nobled off ebay. I just got two immaculate conditioned Arri 575 Daylight HMI with ballasts from a photographic studio for £1100. It really pays to keep looking all the time. The guy I purchased them off also has a 1200 HMI softlight for sale with ballast at £1100. I didn't want it as I have no use, but he said the spread on it was stunning and ideal for studio shooting.
 
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