Hiring unpaid actors

Jackel414

Jackel414

Member
I am shooting a short film in about a month and am using “real” actors for the first time. Since there is no funding for the film, we have found actors by posting ads for the film as unpaid on a local website. Once we have decided on the actors we want for our film, do we need to have them sign some kind of contract? Though we don’t expect this film to make money, will the actors still expect the promise of a percentage of the profit, should there be one? And my final question is: what are the rules about hiring SAG actors for this type of shoot? Clearly I don’t have much experience with this, so any advice you guys could give me would be much appreciated.
 
You definitely need release forms. Any one of your actors can literally stop your film from being shown without the release forms.

I highly doubt SAG actors would be able to work unpaid, it goes against what SAG does in the first place.
 
Ah but I believe SAG Actors can work deferred under the SAG Ultra Low budget agreement. I'd check that out or hire SAG Core actors.

-Nate
 
When SAG actors work deferred (as in the Short Film Agreement), are they still expecting a fixed rate at the end of the films completion, or can you give them a percentage of the profit?

Also, do you know where I can get some sample release forms?
 
SAG actors and no budget do not mix. I see it as rude to even waiste their time courting them on something like this.
You just need a release for for local thespians. Tell them up front there won't be money down the line either and they will still be there.
 
Jackel414 said:
When SAG actors work deferred (as in the Short Film Agreement), are they still expecting a fixed rate at the end of the films completion, or can you give them a percentage of the profit?

Also, do you know where I can get some sample release forms?
Click to expand...
As I understand it, as soon as you get a distribution deal or otherwise see income from the film you owe the cast the regular SAG rates for the days they worked. AFAIK, "points" on profits are never part of the deal as far as union pay requirements are concerned. You might offer them over and above scale to sweeten to deal in order to attract a particular talent but they can't be used to offset part or all of the basic SAG day rate.

A quick google on 'talent releases' will turn up a number of examples for you - take your pick, but it might be smart to have it reviewed by an attorney before using it just to make sure it really will hold up. In most cases, though, they're pretty straight forward. If any of your cast are minors, or if you're shooting erotica, it would be more important to get legal counsel as there are a number of laws beyond the substance of a release that impact those special cases.

As far as using free talent in general, remember that something you get for free is usually worth every penny you paid for it. Someone who is trying to earn a living at the trade and is being paid for your shoot at least has an incentive to actually show up and try to do it right. If you read over the various posts here and on other filmmaking forums, a perrenial problem with volunteer cast is people either not showing up on the date of the shoot without any notice or showing up woefully unprepared.
 
Last edited:
grinner said:
SAG actors and no budget do not mix. I see it as rude to even waiste their time courting them on something like this.
You just need a release for for local thespians. Tell them up front there won't be money down the line either and they will still be there.
Click to expand...

That's isn't really the case these days. Check out the latest SAG contracts and you'll see there are plenty of ways to work with SAG actors for no money. As long as you never make any money off the movie you're in the clear.


www.sagindie.org

You're not getting Tom Hanks of course but it's going to be better than trolling from the local dinner theater.

Noah
 
there is no such thing as hiring anyone or anything for free. Its either hiring or it's not.
In my eyes, this is hard enough as it is without creating your own handicaps as ya go.
 
Jackel414 said:
Also, do you know where I can get some sample release forms?
Click to expand...

Not suppose to give this out except to people who buy my book but what the heck. There's model releases and a bunch of other stuff up here: http://www.actionfilmmaking.tcmech.com/ so have at it. Get the word file and you can alter it as you please.

Ryan Paige said:
There used to be a contract that allowed for deferred pay on features, but that one has, as far as I know, been replaced by the current Ultra Low Budget agreement.
Click to expand...

That totally sucks.

-Nate
 
Thanks for the advice guys. Don’t think we’re going to go with SAG actors in this one, but it’s good to learn about the process.

Thanks for the link Nate. One more question about releases – how important is it to get location releases? Have you guys ever gotten into situations where it’s been really important to have one?
 
grinner said:
there is no such thing as hiring anyone or anything for free. Its either hiring or it's not.
In my eyes, this is hard enough as it is without creating your own handicaps as ya go.
Click to expand...

With the really entry-level indies movies it's not often about "hiring." It's about networking, working for deferrals which of course never come, getting your foot in the door etc. Folks who get hung up on employment details are in the wrong business.

-Noah
 
Yeah forget SAG actors, I don't work with union actors, no interest. I'm not doing high enough budget work and you can and will find great actors who are non-union, some don't even want to be union, and you don't have to deal with all of that annoying paperwork. No unions for me.
 
grinner said:
unions are for those who don't like to compete.
Click to expand...

haha, so true. Unions have destroyed so many industries. This isn't 1850, we don't need unions anymore, and frankly there has never been a need for unions in many industries. It's one thing for coal miners to have a union, or for loggers to have a union, or something along those lines, but why do basketball players need a union?!?! Because they are being treated unfairly and their concerns need to get voiced? Huh? They all make at least $250,000 a year, most millions. The unions for film are really worthless too, high entry fees, don't help you find employment whatsoever, they're just titles and it's all setup to gouge the major studios. A lot of people just want to get into a union so they have this guaranteed off-the-charts pay compared to what they are obviously worth. Nobody goes from $250 per day craigslist to being worth $750 a day in a year, in reality, but if they get into the right union suddenly that could be the case. Makes no sense. They're the same employee you should be able to pay $250 for.

I am not a fan of unions. They are one reason the American car industry cannot compete. They are what destroys American business.
 
It's weird to me.
Take road-making for example. I'm from Texas. I know it takes one evening to make a highway because mexicans making 2 bucks an hour do it every day.
Here in STL, it costs millions upon millions, years upon years and by the time the hiway is done, it's obsolete and has to be widened. It seems the city loves a constant check-writing to lazy dudes garanteed a wage to stand around listing what they cannot or will not do per union rules. It's as easy as sending em home and hiring some workers, imo.

Same in our industry and there is another side of that coin too. I climbed ladders for two decades and now when in LA, people want to offer me union wages to work by the hour.
lol
uuuuuhm. no. I can't afford that. Most of them are not even union houses, they just fall back on that wage because their competitors do.
Jobs are pretty simple. Work, you have a job. Work really hard, you make more. Work less, you get less. Unions were created to debunk this common sense and make fat white guys feel secure as they drink coffee and hide behind their limited abilities.

Talk about stopping progress. When I was a linear editor for a major network, we playes by union rules. This meant when the suite had a hiccup, as linear suites tend to do, I could not hop behind the rack, fix it and rock on. By rule, I had to just sit there while my client burned, waiting on the engineer to ask me what to do.
hows that for efficient? God forbid I crashed close to 5pm. lol
In today's depression, people will have to be set free to do their best to compete. Unions will have to die.
 
Yeah, exactly, it's just the measure of inefficiency and waste. There is no reason that people who are lazy shouldn't be able to be fired very easily. But instead, in a lot of union jobs, it's borderline impossible to fire anyone, for anything! Even major discretions like being an alcoholic. Oh, no, you can't discriminate against someone for their "disability," you have to get them help and send them to AA or something. Forget that! Who cares about their problems? Not the employers' problem! They should be fired, no ifs, ands, or buts, and they can clean up their act if they want to get work and live. Otherwise, they can live on the streets and drink malt liquor. There is no personal responsibility left in this society, it's just not your problem anymore, it's like somehow it's society's problem or your poor upbringing made you kill someone or be this way, etc. It's sickening.

Well, looks like I'll go union for my short, I don't have much of a choice. I'm having a friend help me cast it, she has great connections to B-list type of talent, well or at least C-listers, people who are in major TV shows, etc. So to me, that's worthwhile, I just don't know how to make my production company a SAG signatory and I know it's a HUGE pain in the butt, so I have to figure that out...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top