High Speed photography or slo mo on a budget...

E

eco_bach

Well-known member
Hi
Working on a concept for my reel that involves a shattered bottle in slow motion dramatically lit.

Unfortunately I cannot afford the $2-3000 day it would cost to rent a Phantom Flex.

Are there any other more affordable options for this type of work?
 
A Phantom would be the first choice, but look at renting an IDT camera. I believe an HDiablo was used on The Hurt Locker.
 
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How many FPS are you talking about? The new Sony FS700 will do 240 @1080 without killing res and no sensor crop. The Epic will do 300 @2k however is cropped. Neither will cost thousands per day.

If you want 1,000 FPS then ignore my post.
 
Noel Evans said:
How many FPS are you talking about? The new Sony FS700 will do 240 @1080 without killing res and no sensor crop. The Epic will do 300 @2k however is cropped. Neither will cost thousands per day.

If you want 1,000 FPS then ignore my post.
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Thanks. i'm wondering if perhaps FS700 or Epic footage shot against green-blue screen in a studio and post processed with twixtor would do the trick.

have to do more research...
 
Twister is great, but even in the most skilled hands, no match for true high frame rate footage.

How many fps are you aiming for?
 
David W. Jones said:
You will also need hefty lighting for 1000fps.
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NEEDS to be quoted!!

If using the Arri photometric calculator, bringing in a 2500w Arri HMI fresnel (without filters, diffusion or whatever!) to a mere distance of 8.8m at iso 100 with a 180 degree shutter angle for 1000 fps.... you'd be shooting at F 1.97. Iso 500 will give you an F stop of 4.4.

Add diffusion, bounce the light etc etc...... hope you have a nice studio with some nice power outlets (power factor correction on those HMIs), and set money aside for renting these babies along with some nice heavy duty stands.

Have to edit myself straight away. I learn something all the time :) Quote form Art Adams, which effectively exclude HMIs from this shoot:

HMIs are right out as even flicker-free ballasts will cause the light to flicker unpleasantly at 1000fps. The max speed for HMI use is 120fps.
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This is also a fun read:

http://provideocoalition.com/index.php/aadams/story/1000fps_on_a_budget/

Not trying to bring you down, just hopefully making you understand that you need more than just a fast camera.
 
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"Lighting for High-Speed
Lighting issues are not specific for the Phantom cameras but for high frame rate photography in general. Even with the great sensitivity of modern cameras, be prepared to use a considerable amount of light. Beyond illumination, the largest issue in high-speed lighting is flicker. Tungsten lights actually have a flicker rate. When powered by alternating current (AC) electricity, the power cycles 50 or 60 times per second (depending on the country and its power system). During the down cycle the tungsten lamp filament can dim slightly, causing flicker. The amount of dimming is related to the type of bulb, wattage and physical size of filament. In general, we have found that lamps larger than 2000 watts use tungsten filaments so large that they do not have time to cool and dim before the power cycles back up. Therefore, we recommend using 2K or greater tungsten light fixtures when shooting above 120fps in 60hz countries and 5K or greater when shooting above 100fps in 50hz countries. Be aware that a unit such as a nine-light is NOT a large fixture but is actually an array of smaller lights and as such can flicker.
Some additional recommendations are to use DC power for tungsten lights, which eliminates flicker entirely. HMI and fluorescent lights are generally fine for speeds under 120fps as long as they use electronic ballasts. Magnetic ballasts should not be used. HMI lights can suffer from “arc wander,” whereby a plasmatic “hot spot” can move about within the bulb, causing an amorphous shifting movement in the light output. LED lights are subject to the electronic circuits driving them which can create a vast array of refresh rates, but generally we have found that LED fixtures designed for the production community will not flicker as long as they are not dimmed.
Finally, the shutter angle on the Phantom can affect flicker as well, as a greater shutter angle allows for a longer response time from the light. When shooting extremely high frame rates, it may no longer be necessary to retain a 180-degree shutter to capture the motion generally preferred for a filmic look. A 360-degree shutter allows both more light sensitivity and reduced flicker possibilities."

http://resources.abelcine.com/2009/06/18/phantom-hd-faqs/
 
The Phantom Miro is starting to become more & more available and it rents for about half the price of a Phantom Flex kit. Older Phantom HD Golds are available at lower prices as well.

The new Miro 320 can shoot at 1542fps in 1920x1080 and it is ISO 1200 so the lighting requirements are not as intense.
 
I'm shooting under floodlights in a football field tonight - flicker problem?

I'm shooting under floodlights in a football field tonight - flicker problem?

I'm shooting under floodlights in a football field tonight using the FS700 and hoping to be able to shoot 240fps. Is there going to be a flicker problem with the floodlights?
 
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I shot a number of spots with Phantom and FS700:

FS700:
http://tupeloproductions.com/c_prescription.html

Phantom:
http://tupeloproductions.com/c_cig.html

With phantom at high frame rates you open up the shutter - you are shooting with such high frame rate that the sensor's framerates acts as your shutter. Moreover forget about HMIs. They will NOT flicker but will give you plasma movement (or whatever it's called). You gotta shoot with old time thungsten or Xenon lights (expensive). The smallest unit that doesn't produce flicker is 5k and up.

Here is the pic from the set (yes those are two 5ks frying the set. Notice that the 5k on the right has diffusion - it was only to provide fill, they key light is spotted with no diffusion(!)

IMG_1707.jpg
 
Knock on some doors and talk to a rental house. There's a camera rental house here in NorCal that has a similar rate on the card rate. But... after talking with the rental house owner it became apparent he would be more than willing to come down in price... way down. We had to do some compromises like work around his down time and do our best to set it up so that the camera would only be used for a half day and also to hire one of his camera assistants (a good idea in any circumstance.)

A friendly attitude and a good pitch may work wonders. Worth a try if you haven't already.
 
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