egproductions
Veteran
Black Magic Cameras area really looking great...that log footage could use a LUT though.
Hidden mike
- Thread starter Al MacLeod
- Start date
Black Magic Cameras area really looking great...that log footage could use a LUT though.
little bobby
Well-known member
I really like the Rycote Undercovers. For most interviews, I usually stick them on the inside of the person's shirt or blouse. It's pretty rare that I use some other sort of method for securing the lav so that it is still hidden.
Al MacLeod
Well-known member
Well, yes and no...questioning a community of folks actively engaged in video and audio is valuable
because you frequently get answers to questions you didnt ask. You also have folks who will jump
in to correct spelling... kind of chums the waters if you like...
Tom,
I too believed that the lav was the best answer to noisy environments for many years, until I started using a really good hyper cardioid (MKH50) boomed correctly. If the shot allows you to get the boom in so the mic is within 18-24 inches of the speaker I would prefer the boomed hyper due to better fidelity, especially if the lav has to be in the collar or under the T shirt. Clothing noise is always an issue with the lavs. The lav is the best answer when in a noisy environment if you do not have a boom op that knows what he or she is doing, as the speaker is self booming. If you have the luxury of the boom, and know how to use it, I would choose it almost every time. I recently shot a big project, and to be safe, we did both, and recorded all tracks as iso's so we could choose later. The boomed mic is better than the lav about 90% of the time. The only exceptions were squeaky floors (boom mic pointed down picked up squeaks, lavs pointed up less so).
graywolf
Well-known member
Well, Ric, I would guess that guy has a real-pro film crew, so a good boom op seems a given.
My own experience, as a hobbyist and old to boot, is with boom stands which are pretty useless if the talent is moving around. And I did notice a black dot above his shirt button in a couple of those videos. Of course, they probably were recording that both ways just to be sure they got a good track, I would if someone was paying me.
My own experience, as a hobbyist and old to boot, is with boom stands which are pretty useless if the talent is moving around. And I did notice a black dot above his shirt button in a couple of those videos. Of course, they probably were recording that both ways just to be sure they got a good track, I would if someone was paying me.
Jim Feeley
Veteran
If we're still talking about Rick Steves, he almost always works with a two-person crew: camera and producer. A quick Google appears to confirm my recollection:
"Of course, you also have to establish the host on location: Rick walking down the street, exploring a museum, interacting with locals, and so on. In addition to the camera-mounted mic, Rick always wears a hidden microphone (taped under his shirt). If the scene involves dialogue with someone else — like our Bulgarian local guide, Stefan, or a market vendor Rick is buying something from — we have to take a few minutes to mic up that person, as well."
That's from this article from last month:
http://blog.ricksteves.com/cameron/2016/12/rse-behind-the-scenes-on-location/
(BTW- another article in that series features several pictures of a Sony FS7)
And then there's this 25min BTS episode from 2009...that's actually pretty cool. I haven't seen this in a few years, but just look at the headroom in the opening sequence. Not boomable...though you can see from the screen below that there's a bit of boom where Rick is bundled up in the snow. Worth a watch when you have some downtime:
I do work as both a production sound mixer and as a producer/journalist. Sonically, I always prefer a boom over a lav (my go-to for work like Steves would be a Sanken CS3e, as I tend to post often.
). But I also often need to keep a kinda-low profile. Camera on a tripod with lavs is more ignorable by those walking by than Camera+boom (to say nothing of lights, flags, etc). I think for Steves sticking to lavs almost all of the time makes sense...Heck, just check out his shows...they work really well.
Also: Earlier in this thread, I think we may have had a post from someone who's actually worked with Steves and can fill us in with actual authority...
"Of course, you also have to establish the host on location: Rick walking down the street, exploring a museum, interacting with locals, and so on. In addition to the camera-mounted mic, Rick always wears a hidden microphone (taped under his shirt). If the scene involves dialogue with someone else — like our Bulgarian local guide, Stefan, or a market vendor Rick is buying something from — we have to take a few minutes to mic up that person, as well."
That's from this article from last month:
http://blog.ricksteves.com/cameron/2016/12/rse-behind-the-scenes-on-location/
(BTW- another article in that series features several pictures of a Sony FS7)
And then there's this 25min BTS episode from 2009...that's actually pretty cool. I haven't seen this in a few years, but just look at the headroom in the opening sequence. Not boomable...though you can see from the screen below that there's a bit of boom where Rick is bundled up in the snow. Worth a watch when you have some downtime:
I do work as both a production sound mixer and as a producer/journalist. Sonically, I always prefer a boom over a lav (my go-to for work like Steves would be a Sanken CS3e, as I tend to post often.
). But I also often need to keep a kinda-low profile. Camera on a tripod with lavs is more ignorable by those walking by than Camera+boom (to say nothing of lights, flags, etc). I think for Steves sticking to lavs almost all of the time makes sense...Heck, just check out his shows...they work really well.Also: Earlier in this thread, I think we may have had a post from someone who's actually worked with Steves and can fill us in with actual authority...
Last edited:
graywolf
Well-known member
Thanks, Jim, for that link.
I have learned a lot from this thread.
It is interesting that my own analysis was pretty much on target, that is a learning experience too. With just a cameraman and director, there is not going to be much booming. Although, of course, the director could handle the boom mic if it was needed now and then.
I have learned a lot from this thread.
It is interesting that my own analysis was pretty much on target, that is a learning experience too. With just a cameraman and director, there is not going to be much booming. Although, of course, the director could handle the boom mic if it was needed now and then.
JPNola
Veteran
Of all the shoots I have done- some 2000+ shoots that include Reality TV- I can't say that I have ever seen a Sound person put the lav through a button hole. From what I know of their methods ( I am lucky enough to have Sound Ops of a quality that I don't have to pay much attention to what they do ), when they hide the mic it is almost always placed under the subject's shirt. I have one Sound guy who will periodically hide the head of a lav in the knot of a subject's necktie. Sometimes they will affix the lav to the brassiere of a female subject- often using the "hollow" of a woman's cleavage because that is a convenient way of having the head of the lav away from any clothing. Most of them avoid using the old-school 'vampire clip' because it can damage more delicate clothing fabrics and potentially "stick" the subject. My Sound Ops can be a bit snobbish and they'd likely consider anyone using a vampire clip to be a hack. They pride themselves on methods that don't involve anything that is invasive to the subject's clothing and each Sound Op has their own individual methods for sticking the mic to the subject's clothing or skin. It's hilarious to hear two Sound Ops compare methods and debate techniques. They are all certain that their own method is the best method and will not hesitate to tell another Sound guy or gal why they don't like that method the other person uses. The method of hiding the mic is one of the few times a Sound Mixer gets to be creative. :laugh:
Most of the time they use Rycote stickies, some sort of creation of their own made from a combination of moleskin & Topstick toupee tape, or Topstick and this rubber accessory made for use with Sanken lavs:
As for the belt pack / transmitter, most times it is just clipped to the subject's belt / waistband in the rear and is visible were the subject to be seen from the rear. On the Reality shows the better Sound Ops will put the transmitter in a specialized elastic band that goes around the subject's chest / waist under their clothing. On feature films the manner of hiding the transmitter is more elaborate- a strap that places the x-mitter in the small of the back, a strap that places it around the ankle. Sometimes when the subject is in a flimsy short dress the transmitter is placed in a strap like a garter-belt, positioned on the upper inner thigh near the actor's cooch. I did a Reality show about weddings and that was the method they used on the brides. Which made for a funny sight when the Sound Op had to crawl under the bride's dress to change out the battery in her transmitter.
Most of the time they use Rycote stickies, some sort of creation of their own made from a combination of moleskin & Topstick toupee tape, or Topstick and this rubber accessory made for use with Sanken lavs:
As for the belt pack / transmitter, most times it is just clipped to the subject's belt / waistband in the rear and is visible were the subject to be seen from the rear. On the Reality shows the better Sound Ops will put the transmitter in a specialized elastic band that goes around the subject's chest / waist under their clothing. On feature films the manner of hiding the transmitter is more elaborate- a strap that places the x-mitter in the small of the back, a strap that places it around the ankle. Sometimes when the subject is in a flimsy short dress the transmitter is placed in a strap like a garter-belt, positioned on the upper inner thigh near the actor's cooch. I did a Reality show about weddings and that was the method they used on the brides. Which made for a funny sight when the Sound Op had to crawl under the bride's dress to change out the battery in her transmitter.
Al MacLeod
Well-known member
If we're still talking about Rick Steves, he almost always works with a two-person crew: camera and producer. A quick Google appears to confirm my recollection:
"Of course, you also have to establish the host on location: Rick walking down the street, exploring a museum, interacting with locals, and so on. In addition to the camera-mounted mic, Rick always wears a hidden microphone (taped under his shirt). If the scene involves dialogue with someone else — like our Bulgarian local guide, Stefan, or a market vendor Rick is buying something from — we have to take a few minutes to mic up that person, as well."
That's from this article from last month:
http://blog.ricksteves.com/cameron/2016/12/rse-behind-the-scenes-on-location/
(BTW- another article in that series features several pictures of a Sony FS7)
And then there's this 25min BTS episode from 2009...that's actually pretty cool. I haven't seen this in a few years, but just look at the headroom in the opening sequence. Not boomable...though you can see from the screen below that there's a bit of boom where Rick is bundled up in the snow. Worth a watch when you have some downtime:
I do work as both a production sound mixer and as a producer/journalist. Sonically, I always prefer a boom over a lav (my go-to for work like Steves would be a Sanken CS3e, as I tend to post often.
Also: Earlier in this thread, I think we may have had a post from someone who's actually worked with Steves and can fill us in with actual authority...
You went right to source for the smoking gun!
Thanks for digging for that blog entry...taped on is one method I would have never tried because I wouldnt have thought it would work! I'll try it now!
Jim Feeley
Veteran
I do that fairly regularly. Though it works best if you're working with very small mics such as the Countryman B6. Far from my most common gag, but it's a good solution to certain problems/situations.
But I agree with the rest of your post: Lots of ways to mount & hide lavs. An experienced PSM has a bunch and can usually choose the best approach to a given situation.
The problem with this is when the groom removes the garter, you're out $1500. :2vrolijk_08:
graywolf
Well-known member
The small of the back belt, I was aware of, not some of the others.
The problem with taping a mic to the skin under clothing with non-professional talent is you are likely to get into trouble with the law. Or, at least, have the talent walk off in a huff when you suggest it. ("Hey, honey, I want to interview you, let me just tape this mic to your tits.")
My radio lav is too big for that kind of stuff, so I don't even try to hide it. Just clip it on in a somewhat unobtrusive manner. I also try to avoid running the wire under anything but outer clothing, like a suit jacket.
The problem with taping a mic to the skin under clothing with non-professional talent is you are likely to get into trouble with the law. Or, at least, have the talent walk off in a huff when you suggest it. ("Hey, honey, I want to interview you, let me just tape this mic to your tits.")
My radio lav is too big for that kind of stuff, so I don't even try to hide it. Just clip it on in a somewhat unobtrusive manner. I also try to avoid running the wire under anything but outer clothing, like a suit jacket.