HELP --- Subtitles

girlwithamoviecamera

girlwithamoviecamera

Active member
i'm experiencing problems w/ subtitles. now, i have taken a scene out of my film and now all the subtitles i made in DVD Studio Pro are out of sync. It drives me positively insane that DVDSP 2 does not allow you to move more than one subtitle at a time. The film is feature-length and changing all the subtitles manually would take me hours. Any DVDSP tricks/suggestions on what to do?
thanks,
Ele
 
Most professional subtitles are created externally and then imported. There are a few kinds of subtitles types such as text script, image script or FAB images script. A simple text script subtitle file will normally contain the subtitle number, timecode for in and out points and then the subtitle itself.

These files can be imported into the subtitle track instead of doing them by hand one at a time in your DVD authoring software. Then, as in your case, a scene gets edited down or removed, you just go into the source file and remove the corresponding subtitles. Then just reimport the the script and your done.

I haven't worked in DVD Studio Pro but I can almost be certain there would be the capability to import subtitles. Check your documentation as it will likely contain samples of the formats for externally scripted subtitles.
 
For text scripts any program that outputs a plain text file. ie. on a Mac TextEdit and on PC WordPad. (Make sure they are saved as plain text and not RTF)
 
Ripping and synchronizing subtitles on Mac OSX

Ripping and synchronizing subtitles on Mac OSX

Ele, if you can build your project (by opening the project and clicking "Build") in DVDSP (you don't need a menu if you don't have one already prepared), you should be able to create some VOB files -- files with the extension .VOB -- as well as other files that you don't need at this point. The .vob files are generated during the build process and can be found in the folder named VIDEO_TS. These large 1 GB files (a few of them will be smaller than 1GB) have names like this: VTS_01_1.VOB, VTS_01_2.VOB, VTS_01_3.VOB)

The VOB files will contain the incorrectly synchronized subtitles. You can extract the subtitles into a separate subtitle file by running the VOB files through a subtitle ripping program. (There are a number of programs that do this. D-Subtitler 1.0 is a freeware subtitle ripping program for Mac OSX available here (control-click or right-click and download/save as): http://objectifmac.cocotier.ch/D-Subtitler.dmg) If you open a VOB file in D-Subtitler, it will rip (extract) an ".srt" subtitle file. Ripping the file can take anywhere from 1 minute to 15 or even 20 minutes, depending on the size of the VOB, the length/complexity of the subtitles, and the speed of your hardware. On my 1.8 GHz G5 machine, ripping the subtitles from a 1 GB VOB takes from 1 minute (for about 60 lines of subtitles) to about 4 or 5 minutes (for several hundred lines of text).

You can then take the .srt subtitle file(s) and join, split, and synchronize the subtitles with a synchronization program. The joining/splitting and synchronization take only a few seconds. The chief concern is to get your begin and end marker times correct. Some experimentation -- trial and error -- with different begin and end times may be necessary to get the subtitles exactly where you want them. But this is quite easy to do. In fewer than 10 minutes, I can make 3 different synchronized versions of the same subtitle file. (For Mac OSX, there is an excellent freeware subtitle sync program called SubSyncX, which you can download here (control-click or right-click and download/save as): http://www.videohelp.com/forum/images/guides/p1424439/subsyncx.sit)

Now that you've got your subtitles properly joined and synchronized, you need to convert them to a format that is supported by DVDSP. This also can be done rather quickly, taking a few minutes at most. TitleLab, a Mac OSX freeware program that does this, is available here (control-click or right-click and download/save as): http://www.w.cantillon.easynet.be/TitleLAB.sit

In TitleLab, you can save/"export" your subtitle file as "DVD Studio Pro." However, there may be some problems importing this exported file directly into DVDSP, so you should edit the file after it comes out of TitleLab.

You should insert these lines at the top of your file:
$FontName = Helvetica
$FontSize = 24
$Bold = True
$HorzAlign = Center

There should be no spaces between the lines.
Next you should insert commas after each timecode start and end value.
There must be a single space BEFORE and AFTER each comma. Also line breaks "<P>" must be replaced with the character "|" (without the quotes, of course). Before editing, you should see a file that looks like this:

00:01:55.27 00:01:57.03 Move! Move it out of here!
00:01:57.10 00:01:58.07 Go!
00:01:58.13 00:02:00.03 lt's scorching the table!<P>Fast!
00:02:00.12 00:02:01.08 -Move!<P>-Okay!


After correcting the file by using the find and replace function, it should look like this:

00:01:55.27 , 00:01:57.03 , Move! Move it out of here!
00:01:57.10 , 00:01:58.07 , Go!
00:01:58.13 , 00:02:00.03 , lt's scorching the table! | Fast!
00:02:00.12 , 00:02:01.08 , -Move! | -Okay!

This editing can be the most time consuming part of the whole process. It can take hours to make these corrections with most text editors, so I like to use a powerful editor like the freeware BBEdit Lite, which you can download here for Mac OSX (control-click or right-click and download/save as): ftp://ftp.barebones.com/pub/freeware/BBEdit_Lite_612.smi.hqx
With BBEdit Lite, these corrections take a few seconds. I use these find and replace search strings in BBEdit Lite:

1) For the commas (,) edit (check the "Use Grep" box and the "Start at Top" box):

In the "Search For" field enter this string exactly as it appears below, with no spaces before or after the characters:

(##.##)[\t]

In the "Replace With" field, enter this, with no space before the "\" and no space between "\" and "1" BUT one space before AND after the comma:

\1 ,

Then click the "Replace All" button.

2) To remove "<P>" (check the "Use Grep" box and the "Start at Top" box):

In the "Search For" field, enter this string, with no spaces before or after the "<P>":
<P>

In the "Replace With" field, enter this, with ONE space before "\" and ONE space after "|" BUT with NO space between the "\" and the "|":
\|

Then click the "Replace All" button. Save your file (.txt subtitle file) and you're done.

Now it's time to add your subtitle file to your project:
In DVDSP, first control-click on the subtitle "S1" track and choose "import subtitle file." Now you can select your .txt subtitle file. Next, you can import the audio and video streams. (You should probably import the subtitle file BEFORE you drag the video stream to the video track. DVDSP 4 gives me error messages if I attempt to import the subtitles when the video stream is in the video track.)

There are, of course, endless other details, but this may help you to get started in the right direction. All of this may seem overwhelming at first, but it's a lot faster than manually correcting your subtitles.

At the very least, you should be able to build your vob files and rip the subtitles to a file in probably fewer than 30 minutes. If you succeed in doing that, I'd be glad to help you get your subtitle file(s) in working order. You can e-mail/PM them to me or post your progress here.

By the way, I love your Dove Sei Tu trailer http://55broad.video.blip.tv:8000/Girlwithamoviecamera-DoveSeiTuTrailerROUGHCUT132.mov. Hope to see more of your good work soon.

Mark
 
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Mark,

thank you so so much for taking the time to help me out with suggestions about subtitles... very much appreciated!!! :-)

actually, yesterday i thought of the same thing (i.e. ripping the subs from the actual DVD). i downloaded D-Subtitler 1.0 and ran it but for some mysterious reason the software gets stuck on a "converting images into text" mode for hours. mind you, it says that it is working, but my computer would invariably go to sleep even when the application is supposedly running.

So, I looked for other applications that could perform the same task. ffmpegX mentioned something about importing and exporting subtitles. i downloaded/tried it, but it was 1am and sleepyheaded, i couldn't figure out how to rip subs. i'll try again today.

thank you for the brilliant, super helpful description of all the steps involved :))) Should I be unable to rip the subtitles from the DVD, I suppose I will just start over and do things properly, but at least now I know how to rip subtitles and re-import them. grazie mille!

(and thanks for the sweet words about Dove Sei Tu --- it's being scored right now, going to festivals hopefully soon :)
 
How to use D-Subtitler to rip subtitles from vob files on a Mac

How to use D-Subtitler to rip subtitles from vob files on a Mac

girlwithamoviecamera said:
yesterday i thought of the same thing (i.e. ripping the subs from the actual DVD). i downloaded D-Subtitler 1.0 and ran it but for some mysterious reason the software gets stuck on a "converting images into text" mode for hours. mind you, it says that it is working, but my computer would invariably go to sleep even when the application is supposedly running.
Click to expand...

Ele bella, the problem you're having with D-Subtitler can (probably) be fixed by CAREFULLY reading the dialog box that opens within a few minutes of clicking start. The dialog box asks you to CONFIRM the color of the text image AND the color of the background. If the colors are not EXACTLY correct, your subtitles will not be extracted and D-Subtitler will spin for hours on end and even go to sleep (since it is actually doing nothing). So you must choose, from the "Choice of gray levels:" pop-up menu, the correct line. Pick any one at random and then click "Test." If BLACK letters with a WHITE background appear, then you're ready to click "Continue." Otherwise keep testing until you get SOLID black letters (NOT black outlined letters) with a WHITE background. After that, D-Subtitler will extract the subtitles in about another minute. So the whole process should take about 2~10 minutes for each 1 GB VOB file. For a 2 GB VOB file, figure about 15 to 20 minutes maximum for a slow machine, etc.

I've made a small (3.5 MB) .swf tutorial video (without audio) that shows, in real time, how to use D-Subtitler to rip the subtitles from a 1GB VOB file. You should be able to play this file in Quicktime. (If not, let me know.) Pay special attention to the clip at the 59 second mark. I've opened the pop-up menu to show you how to correct the problem you're having. In the demo, unfortunately, the correct BLACK on WHITE pattern came up automatically, so I just clicked "Continue." Just be sure to choose the correct "gray level" in the pop-up menu!

I've made a few corrections to my original post, so please take another look at that.

The subtitle ripping demo/tutorial 3.5 MB is HERE (control-click or right-click and download/save as). The download site is not mine, so I'll have to remove the link in a few days.

girlwithamoviecamera said:
(and thanks for the sweet words about Dove Sei Tu --- it's being scored right now, going to festivals hopefully soon :)
Click to expand...

Do keep us posted on your work. I'm very impressed.

Mark
 
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Mark --- you are an angel

IT WORKED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I now have a file named "doveseitu_subtitles.srt" sitting on my desktop. Fully legible, perfectly working :)

I have been jumping around like a cheerleader for the past ten minutes, I can't believe it!!!! I had tried EVERYTHING in the past two days. My Applications folder now includes programs such as D-Vision 3, ffmpegX, Sub2Srt, Subtitler, Yade X. You name it. I even crossed platforms, asking my dad to use his laptop running on Windows. I was pretty much resigned to the fact of starting over - just thinking about it would give me pseudo epilectic seizures. So, thank you for sparing me endlessly tedious hours of re-typing subtitles!

I would very much like to put your name in the end titles of "Dove Sei Tu" --- you deserve credit for the tremendous help you gave me, so, if you'd like, you can send me your full name on a private msg or email. (And naturally, I'd send you a DVD of the film as soon as the score is finished :)

Thanks again!!!
Take care,
 
For the future - here's a handy, free, subtitle editing approach -

http://www.wieriks.nl/dvdtools/

you actually type your subtitles into an excel spreadsheet, and it generates an STL file. You can use all of Excel's features to shift blocks of subtitles, etc...

-Barry
 
girlwithamoviecamera said:
I now have a file named "doveseitu_subtitles.srt" sitting on my desktop. Fully legible, perfectly working :)
Click to expand...

Great!! Now, if you'd like, you can send me the .srt file by email attachment , with instructions on how you'd like to structure the subtitles, and I'll return to you (before you wake up on Friday) a finished version of the subtitles file, all ready for import into DVDSP. (I have to earn my copy of your DVD, after all.)

girlwithamoviecamera said:
I would very much like to put your name in the end titles of "Dove Sei Tu" --- you deserve credit for the tremendous help you gave me, so, if you'd like, you can send me your full name on a private msg or email. (And naturally, I'd send you a DVD of the film as soon as the score is finished :)
Click to expand...
Thanks! I'd love to get a copy of your film. I am also hoping for a hug and kisses Italian style, but, until you come to Los Angeles, that's going to be a little difficult. Perhaps we'll meet someday in the "loveliest city in the world," just as that couple did in Before Sunset.

I'll send you an email, so we can get started on the subtitles.

Mark
 
And the subtitles saga continues...

And the subtitles saga continues...

Mark_P said:
Great!! Now, if you'd like, you can send me the .srt file by email attachment , with instructions on how you'd like to structure the subtitles, and I'll return to you (before you wake up on Friday) a finished version of the subtitles file, all ready for import into DVDSP.
Click to expand...
Mark, thank you so so much for your help - you're the best! :-)

I wouldn't have asked for more help, but another issue has come up. I have corrected copies of the subtitles in .srt .xml and .txt formats. Corrected in the sense of typos and punctuation but not timecode. There are a thousand shifts to make in the timeline and it would take me ages to do the input manually in a text-based program. Also, I have been totally traumatized by DVDSP's rigidity and lack of user friendliness when it comes to subtitles, so what I'd like to do now, is take a different approach.

I know Final Cut is not exactly the standard program for subtitles, but, nevertheless, I would like to convert my .srt or .xml subtitles into FCP text files. Ideally placed in the timeline according to their in/out points and with their exact duration. That would allow me to take entire text blocks and move them in the timeline extremely easily, making them snap into their new place. Also, if I ever make any other changes to the film, the subtitle track would move dynamically in Final Cut.

I'm usually pretty good at figuring out stuff but XML has been baffling me. I downloaded a Quicktime component for SRT files and converted them to "teXML" files but Final Cut hasn't been able to read them. When I try to import them, Final Cut asks for an XML template file ????? I also tried with subtitle XML files generated outside of Quicktime but had the same result. Any suggestions?

Mark_P said:
(I have to earn my copy of your DVD, after all.)
Click to expand...
You've already earned 5! ;-)

Thanks sooooo much again!
 
After some trial and error w/ various programs I realized that importing the subtitles (as either .srt or quicktime txt files) into Belle Nuit Subtitler and exporting them as Final Cut XML may be the answer) -- no more XML error messages :)

Reporting back soon...
 
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I think the easiest thing may be to import the subtitles int DVDSP and adjust them in the timeline there.

Unfortunately, nothing seems to make subtitling as nice as it should be.....

Entering them in the spreadsheet I've suggested has the benefit of being able to move blocks, and add other languages easily; and keeps them in the format closest to the final timing. But at different stages of the process, different approaches become expedient... and where you are now, it may be fastest to go to DVDSP.

My general process is to go from a text document into a spreadsheet, which can be set up to automatically put each line of text as a separate subtitle. Then I go through the video, adding timecode to the spreadsheet. Then I export the SRT, import into DVDSP, and fine-tune timing and line breaks, etc. That seems fastest...

It would indeed be much nicer to be able to work with subtitles in FCP and export them to DVDSP... it would even be much better if multiple subtitles could be moved in DVDSP... but this is where we are now.

-Barry
 
Problems magically solved...

Problems magically solved...

Belle Nuit Subtitler saved my life.

- Extracted the old subtitles with D-Subtitler
- Imported the recovered .srt into Belle Nuit
- In Belle Nuit, fixed typos & exported (a) a Final Cut XML and (b) actual subtitles as TIFF images
- Imported those into Final Cut and moved the subtitles in blocks in the timeline (something you just can't do in DVDSP, you can only move one subtitle line at a time)

I was done in a matter of hours and, should I make any more changes to the film, Final Cut's XML and Reconnect Media features will make the subtitles adjust in a snap. Very happy indeed :-)
 
Yes, they are part of the video now (and very deliberately so).

Again, DVSP's current way of handling subtitles just about made me cringe, so I now have the subtitles on their own layer in Final Cut. My film's soundtrack is currently being replaced with an original score, so, should I need to make any more changes to the film (even, say, take out one single frame), I want to avoid having all the subtitles go out of sync.

And, thanks to Belle Nuit, I could very well export them to DVDSP, should I change my mind in the future. The software really gives you tons of choice :-)
 
girlwithamoviecamera said:
And, thanks to Belle Nuit, I could very well export them to DVDSP, should I change my mind in the future. The software really gives you tons of choice :-)
Click to expand...

Interesting... I'll have to try it... most of my subtitle projects have more than 1 language, so I can't just superimpose on video. So I've gotten good at hand-editng srt files or using the spreadsheet. I've requested better subtitle handling in DVDSP for a few years now... maybe next version...?
 
Yes, hopefully the next version of DVDSP will improve subtitles. As for multiple languages, I would still recommend Belle Nuit Subtitler --- it's the only software that gives you tons of choices re: subtitles output. (I should know, I spent almost a whole week, morning to evening, researching/testing out programs for subtitles ;-)
 
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