Help! Argument over DVD-R vs MiniDV

M

mrzarquon

New member
A Professor here on campus has been sucked into the marketing hype of the new dvd-r cameras that are out, and is trying to get ride of the minidv cameras to replace "the next generation of technology". The problem is, well, the dvd-r's are recording to Mpeg2, and while I like being able to pop the disc in the drive to import, its still lower quality than DV format. Let alone only 30 minutes per side per disc, whereas one can pickup a DVC-Pro tape with 80 minutes on it. Also considering that he is dropping around $800 a pop on these 1ccd cameras, he could be picking up 3ccd panasonics (PV-GS120) for $700 (these are the MSRP's).

Anyway, has anyone found any good shot for shot comparisons of minidv vs dvd-r?
 
Re: Help! Argument over DVD-R vs MiniDV

"Shot-for-shot" meaning what?

DV v. MPEG-2 is all you really need to know.
 
Re: Help! Argument over DVD-R vs MiniDV

Well, that plus the quality of the DVD-R camera... I thought the only DVD-R cameras on the market were little handycam 1-CCD models... the footage from a 3-CCD like the GS100 should be quite a bit better, regardless of recording medium. Then compound that with the fact that DV is a better recording medium, and the quality argument should be a no-brainer.
 
Re: Help! Argument over DVD-R vs MiniDV

I've actually tried those arguments, but the professor is hell bent on the idea of "optical is the way to go." Was wondering if anyone found any reviews, I sent him an email with the above stuff already, including a price comparison (he could get 40 mini dv tapes along with the gs120, for the price of the dvd-r camera).
 
Re: Help! Argument over DVD-R vs MiniDV

1.what program is  it he plans to buy and of course equipment to edit Mpeg 2 efficiently?? he may well spend a fortune on the editing solution. One that works well anyways
2. they are all one chippers the quality cant compare to a 3 chipper
3.why is he not driving the electric car back and forth to work? (maybe he is) (treehuggers) lol anyways.. i presume because although a neat idea.. they just dont have the tehnology down yet to use them in this society, ie distance, accesability to electric hookups, charging down time.. on and on.. same deal here essentialy
4.mini DV is 13 GIG (1hour) a regular DVD is 4gig (20min) I presume these mini DVDs are even smaller yet.. And yes of course but not with the new dual layer technology.. oh wait this new dvd camera doesnt have that capability "YET".. lol

I would say.. Like the electric car which is a really neat idea.. Society isnt ready yet other technology doesnt support it. It isnt practical and it would be a waste fo time and money.

further more technology is getting to where we wont use a disk CD or DVD either. They are really rather arcaic when you think about it. Now they have small SD cards the size of a postage stamp practically with similiar data storage capacity. Our cameras of tommorrow will have little hard drives we store the info on. and swap them instead.. Yes sir right around the corner.. Instead of a CD for consumer purposes I contend people will be carrying around little usb or similiar storage devices like our fuses in the car.. Kinda like now they have the plug and play 512 storage devices.. beats the hell out of disks for practicallity purposes.

Right now is a great time to be alive technology wise. We are going to see our technology make this change, the CD and DVD are soon to be discontinued within a decade i bet.. slowly phased out...
 
Re: Help! Argument over DVD-R vs MiniDV

We already have a lab that will be stocked with dual 2ghz G5, FCP 4.5, and minidv decks already attached.

This professor is smoking crack.
-Edit-
This guy is seriously smoking crack. he wants to edit the video on his office computer using WinDVD.
 
Re: Help! Argument over DVD-R vs MiniDV

lol,
That is so funny.. Shows you what your dealing with.. take him a stack of videographer and DV magazines plop them on the desk.. and call him grasshopper .. "The answer to your dilema can be found from within".
"Would one give up his trusted friend, for someone whom he doesnt know??  lol

Havent i read somewhere though that mpeg 2 cannot be edited efficiently and none of the programs can really do this in less of course you use the real high end real time stuff??
 
Re: Help! Argument over DVD-R vs MiniDV

I have a good friend who is a professional photographer. He use to own Sony Mavica CD digital camera which used mini CD-R instead of compact flash. He firmly believed that mini CD-R was "the next generation of technology" and was going to replace compact flash. But guess what, nobody makes mini CD digital camera anymore.
 
Re: Help! Argument over DVD-R vs MiniDV

[quote author=Barry_Green link=board=Offtopic;num=1087345164;start=0#2 date=06/15/04 at 19:01:07]Well, that plus the quality of the DVD-R camera... I thought the only DVD-R cameras on the market were little handycam 1-CCD models... the footage from a 3-CCD like the GS100 should be quite a bit better, regardless of recording medium.  Then compound that with the fact that DV is a better recording medium, and the quality argument should be a no-brainer.[/quote]

I think you're right, Barry, but beyond that, even in the 3-CCD world, if you're writing to DVD, you're writing in MPEG-2.

Where do all these "professors" come from, and why are they being allowed to "profess"? This guy, the anti-24p guy, the guy who says boom poles are useless . . .
 
Re: Help! Argument over DVD-R vs MiniDV

I seem to recall a review (or editorial) on the sony handicam version awhile back in one of the mags - don't recall which one. What I do remember though is the author talking about serious performance issues while trying to shoot with it - like waiting a long time after hitting the record button before it actually starts recording (burning :P).
 
Re: Help! Argument over DVD-R vs MiniDV

Tell him to read this...
http://film-to-video.com/tutorial.html
Seriously...it explains everything very well...

Basically this is just an articel explaining why MiniDV's are better than DVD's

::AN EXCERPT FROM THE LARGE ARTICLE::


What is the Difference Between DVD and DV?


(This section is a repeat from the introduction -- except for the last couple of paragraphs -- which are MUST reading.)

DVD stands for "Digital Video Disc" -- EVERYONE KNOWS THAT --
BUT
what you know but don't realize
IS
because the abbreviation DVD has the letters "DV" in it
AND
because "Digital Video Disc" has the words "Digital Video" in it,
YOU
have been set-up to be exploitive by the "film transfer mills"
AND
their slick use of these words and letters on their websites!
BUYER BEWARE!

SIDE NOTE: The following is the same reason you do NOT want to buy
one of those new camcorders that records on a DVD.

The con game starts with the letters DV. If you don't understand the following, then you loose
1) the quality and resolution of your original film and 2) your money:


In the Video Production industry,  there is a professional, high resolution, full frame video format called
 "Digital Video" format. It is called DV for short.

DV "format" can be put on various types of digital tapes as follow:
DVC tape (Digital Video Cassette), MiniDV tape, DVPro tape, etc.
All these are different sizes and grades of digital tape, but you can write DV on all of them.


BE CAREFUL! Here is where YOU get confused and 'taken"  -- when we start talking about DVD's!

GETTING THE WORDS "digital video" and "DIGITAL VIDEO" STRAIGHT.

DVD stands for Digital Video Disc.  Notice it has the words "Digital Video" in the unabbreviated long version of the name.
The general public ASSUMES that the letters "DV" in "DVD" stands for "Digital Video" (the format)  -- not "digital video" (the general term).

The letters "DV" in "DVD" DOES stand for "digital video" --
in the general, generic context of "video that is digital"

The letters "DV" in "DVD" does NOT stand for the "Digital Video (DV)" --
which is a "full frame", "high resolution" professional video format.

DVD's are NOT "full frame" video; but DV format IS.
DVD's are NOT "high resolution" video; but DV format IS.

Therefore, the term "DVD" is VERY misleading. 
DVD's are "NOT" -- "everything" DV format "IS"!

Read on to find out why!

NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER associate "DV format" with DVD's!
NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER associate "Digital Video" format with DVD's!

This is what Transfer Mills what you to be confused or ignorant of. THIS is how they "getcha!"


DVD's are "digital video".                 (Note the generic use of the words.)
DVD's are NOT "Digital Video"        (Note the use of the words capitalized to mean DV format.)
DVD's are NOT made in "Digital Video" format -- (i.e.,  DV format).

Transfer mills want you to think DVD format and DV format are "kissing cousins" -- WRONG!

DVD's are made in MPEG-2 format -- which is (generically) a "digital video format" -- BUT
MPEG-2 format is "low resolution"  (Say, "Bye bye" to your digital film archive on this point alone.)
DV format is "high resolution".

MPEG-2 format is a "partial frame" format.
MPEG-2 does NOT give you a "full frame" of video for every "full frame" of your original film.
MPEG-2 gives you a "partial frame" only for MOST "full frames" of you film!
(Say, "Bye bye" to your digital film archive on this point alone -- again!)

DV format IS a "full frame format".
DV format DOES give you a "full frame" of video for every "full frame" of your original film.

Because of DVD's "partial frame" format -- MPEG-2
1) you can NOT pull photographs from MPEG-2 video
2) you can NOT delete anything from MPEG-2 video
3) you can NOT add anything to MPEG-2 video
4) you can NOT lay voice-overs or narrations onto MPEG-2 video
5) you can NOT insert photographs into MPEG-2 video
6) you can NOT re-create your original film, yes, I said "film" from MPEG-2 video and
7) you can NOT re-create a "high resolution" digital backup of your "original film" from MPEG-2.

BOTTOM LINE:

With MPEG-2 (DVD's) YOU can NOT change, add, delete, pull, or re-create anything from your original film images -- once it is in MPEG-2 format.
With DV (Digital Video) YOU CAN change, add, delete, pull, or re-create anything from your original film images -- as long as it is in DV format.

WHAT DOES ALL THIS MEAN TO YOU?

If all you have is a DVD from your original film, you haven't got much.  You have lost most ALL of the 'full frames" of your original film.  You have lost much of the resolution (the very fine detail) of your original films. You have lost all "creative rights" to your films -- the option to change, add, delete, pull, or re-create anything from your original film images.  You have lost the option to convert your film to ANY format that is higher resolution than MPEG-2 -- which is the lowest resolution there for "digital video".  You and your heirs have lost the right to watch your digital videos with the same resolution and quality as your original film -- forever!

(Not in introduction)


DVD (Digital Video Disc) is what you play in your computer or DVD player. A DVD itself, is NOT a video format. Many types of video formats can be saved on a DVD.   For most consumer purposes, DVD is manufactured to the standards of NTSC TV (the TV set you use in your home) using MPEG-2 format.  Although it may argued to be higher resolution than VHS, it is considered low resolution by DV standards --  contrary to what many transfer mills would like you to believe.  There are plenty of articles about  MPEG1, MGPEG2, etc. on the web.  Most formats on DVD do NOT meet the standards of DV. Bottom line, most DVD's are not archive worthy -- especially if the video on them is  MPEG.

DV (Digital Video) is a high resolution digital video format which is captured on DVC -- Digital Video Cassette (tape) or MiniDV (Mini Digital Video cassette).  Even though it is a "lossy" format, DV is rated at least 480 lines of horizontal resolution.  Since DV is stored on DVC or MiniDV.

For an in-depth technical discussion about (Digital Video) DV Format vs. DVD (MPEG2), there is an excellent article at http://www.adamwilt.com/DVvsMPEG.html  Bottom line, DV wins, "hands down" over MPEG-2.
 
Re: Help! Argument over DVD-R vs MiniDV

Well, according to the DVD Forum, which pretty much invented the thing, it's "Versatile." I'm inclined to take their word for it . . .

;)
 
Re: Help! Argument over DVD-R vs MiniDV

I orginally thought that it was Digital Versatile Disc...years ago...but I haven't heard it since then so I thought I was crazy since I kept seeing Digital Video Disc.. ;D
 
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