Hello from Yorkshire

Well I think we will get on as I hate RED and it's artificial look, I also hate their ethic of making people buy into the hype and promise of vapour ware, its all to like selling sunglasses and sony and panasonic started to do it too! RED is also a pain on set for the sound dept and is basically just a computer with a lens on the front!

I have never seen a frame of Star Wars or George Lucas films as I agree he has done a fair amount of damage to the art and skill of film shooting, he just tried to make things cheaper in a lkt of ways but we are stuck with the legacy.

A matter of life and death is my favorite Jack Cardiff film and I am amazed when it was made and how he got the best out of the all new technicolour process.

Love Kubrick too and he was clever to buy up all the classic glass and camera kit that no one else wanted and I like his shooting format too! I used to work for AMS Neve designing and supporting their digital audio edit systems and knew Nigel Galt who had an edit set-up at Kubricks home for eyes wide shut!
 
Haha, yeah I think we'll get along really well. I've never shot on film, it's way too expensive for someone like me. I see digital being for people like myself, and film for the pro's. HD and 4K are far cheaper to use, and with every film having the awful CGI FX in them, I can see why they would opt to shoot digital now. I for one would not shoot on RED's. If I had the choice, it would be the F65, but that's only because I know a very little about digital video, with film I would be lost. I'm sure a film maker like Tarantino will always shoot on film, but he has the power and the money to do it.

GaryNattrass said:
I have never seen a frame of Star Wars or George Lucas films as I agree he has done a fair amount of damage to the art and skill of film shooting, he just tried to make things cheaper in a lkt of ways but we are stuck with the legacy.
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Now that is some feat, I wish I could say that. I have never seen any of the Fast and Furious films, or Twilight, or any of the other rubbish that they are churning out now. I'll stick with my 70's cinema, or foreign cinema.

This is embarrassing, but I've never seen A matter of life and death. I will though, it's the one with the mixture of colour and monochrome. Do you like Peeping Tom? What about Hitchcock?

Kubrick is the master, I look up to him more than anyone. I only ever got to see one of his films at the cinema due to my age, and that was Eyes Wide Shut. I remember it so well, I marched out of the cinema straight after it finished and purchased the soundtrack, I didn't want the experience to end. Do you not think he would shoot on the ALEXA? I just remember he was ARRI mad, I would be too, but the prices of ARRI equipment is way out of my league.

I saw Spartacus on a re-release, it was amazing! Full Metal Jacket I need to see at a cinema. Funny my friend said to me the other week, "the lenses Kubrick used on A Clocwork Orange, were awful", I just laughed at him.

Did Nigel Galt have anything interesting to say about Kubrick? I would have loved to have had a conversation with him, from all accounts, a converstion with Kubrick could last all day. If only.
 
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I think Kubrick would still be shooting on his old mitchell film cameras but if he had to change the Alexa would be his camera of choice. You can actually rent his primes and that is what most productions do anyway with camera gear as it ensures they have working kit and the insurance is someone else's problem. We always hired in Aatons or a well looked after Arri SR16 if we were doing drama as the ones owned by the TV companies had been thrown around on doco shoots.

I recall Kubrick being quite ill when Nigel was doing eyes wide shut but he said that he wanted to do asw much at his home so he had an AMS Neve Logic 3 and Audiofile set-up to do the sound editing and a similar system for the pictures, I think it might have been a Lightworks as that emulated a steenbeck better. I always liked that Kubrick delivered his films in the same format that they were shot in so people got to see the full frame. There is too much bullshit about widescreen and cinemascope and at times it can put content way outside of your vision scope.

http://www.kubrickcollection.com/
 
Your right, It was the old |Mitchell BNC's, I don't know where I got ARRI from. So you prefer shooting on film?

Is that 50mm Zeiss F 0.7, the actual lens that was used on Barry Lyndon? If so, I wouldn't want to see the rental price for that lens. Really it belongs in a museum. Barry Lyndon is probably my favourite Kubrick, unfair that it doesn't get the respect it deserves.

Maybe I should invest in lenses, rather than get another camera.

I was after an ARRI matte box, but then I found this http://www.budgetcameragear.com/cinebox-4x4-Matte-Box-p/shoot-cinebox-flags.htm

For the price, it's a steal. The ARRI version of this is over £2000.
 
I was brought up on film but like the workflow of digital now but like my camera profiles to look very film like, that is whay I chose panasonic cameras this time and the BBC guru Alan Roberts has given me camera profiles that were used of Planet Earth and other BBC drama productions.

It is hard to describe but it is the high contrast well saturated look but if you like most of the films we have discussed we are pretty much in the ballpark.

What I do not like is that wishy washy RED like look or the over intense cartoon look that some grade to look cyan or magenta.

I think that lens costs $750 a day to rent but I doubt most productions would have the time and budget to get the best out of it.

I am happy with whatever is given to me as budget can dictate things a lot more and I am still proud of what I managed to get on The Last straw with just a 1/3" chip camera and the stock fujinon zoom lens but Alans camera profiles allowed me to get the best out of the 10 bit avcintra codec. PM me your address and I will send you a full res HD movie file as I would be interested to see what you think of it.

Other films on my top ten list are Blade Runner, the original Thomas Crown affair Jean de Florette and Schindlers list but as we all know content is king and a good script and performances add to any cinematic moment.

I use a Cavision matte box and rails with 6.5 x 4 filter trays and it looks very similar to that one, here is a pic of it on location with Me and David Matthews the Director of The Last Straw:
 
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Awesome stuff.

I don't know what my preferences for grading are, but these come to mind. For war, I'm obsessed with streaky lines like in Saving Private Ryan, and a 25% black and white filter over the colours. The shades of black and white, and the colour red for a dream sequence. I have not seen this film yet, but this is one kind of colour correction I would like to try http://www.criterion.com/films/1454-red-desert

I'm starting to hate all the fake anamorphic lens flares people are using, it annoys me, it's obviously fake.

Off the top of my head, my top 15 would be

1) The Godfather or Apocalypse Now
2) 2001 or Barry Lyndon
3) The Thin Red Line
4) Taxi Driver
5) Raging Bull
6) Schindler's List
7) Saving Private Ryan
8) Full Metal Jacket
9) The Wild Bunch
10) Blade Runner
11) Cross of Iron
12) Get Carter
13) Blue Velvet
14) Munich
15) Black Narcissus

Too many to list, but anything directed by Brian De Palma, Francis ford Coppola, Martin Scorsese, stanley Kubrick, Steven Spielberg, Sam Peckinpah, Oliver Stone, David Lean, Luc Besson, Alfred Hitchcock, Michael Cimino, David Lynch, Don Siegel, Clint Eastwood. People may frown but I don't like Fellini, haha.

Nice set-up, how much did that matte box cost? What is David Matthews doing these days? Is he doing film or TV? Or stuck doing a menial job like myself?
 
David was working in the Piano and Pitcher in Harrogate and Matthew the writer was in Pizza Express when we did the film but not aure what they are doing now!

Good list of films there and I also love most french cinema with Luc Besson's Nikita high up there although he went a bit too american at times but The Big Blue, Leon and Wasabi are good too.

The matte box and rails was around £600 I think and I added some grips later so that 4x4 one is very good value but they are not in the league of the expensive pro ones bht do the job if you don't need to use them all the time.

I think I saw Red Desert on film 4 earlier this year the film stock reminds me of kodak ektachrome 64 that I used as a stills colourslide film and I have boxes of my late fathers colourslides from the 60's that have a similar look. Ek64 was less saturated than ektachrome 25 and I am sure the similar film stock emulsion was used for the motion picture reversal stock. Ektachrome tungsten 160 was also a stills favorite as you could push it up to 3200 asa to get a real grainy use.
Can't remember most of the 16mm stock now but it was mainly kodak we used in the 80's, the fuji stock tended to have a more green tinge but that may just have been down to the grading.

I was lucky that most of the films I worked on in the 80's I was the boom op but as I had more interest than most of the camera assistants the DOP's were always happy to show me their art and allow me to expeience a lot more than most people had time to as I had a keen interest in stills from the age of 12 and always had high end nikons with me at all times, sadly sold my F3, F4 and nikors but still have a few nice bits of kit. I was also allowed to see how all the lighting and grips were done as people were so generous and could see my passion for the visuals as well as my core job as sound crew.
 
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Nikita should have been on my list, I have the poster on my bedroom wall, it's one of those films I adore. I can not think of a single female performance that beats Anne Parillaud's in Nikita. I admire Besson, he has an amazing eye for visuals, like when the camera becomes the bullet in Nikita, well every shot in Nikita to be honest. The dream scene in the Big Blue where the water pours in the bed room, or that one colour shot from Jacques child hood. In Leon, that shot of Jean Reno's mouth, when he screams out in anger. I find Besson's visuals, unique. Yes his latter work is more American, but I would take the 5th Element over any Blockbuster that comes out today. It did take me a few attempts to like the 5th Element, but it is very funny, and a one of a kind sort of experience. I have Joan of Arc on Blu Ray, I'm scared I won't like it, and have yet to see it. Atlantis is a beautiful watch, and very relaxing.

Yeah that matte box is just to be going on with, I want an ARRI MB20 II, but it will have to wait.

Your knowledge of film stock is very impressive. I wouldn't have a clue. I tried photography when I was a student, but the tutor put me off, and I gave up. I Made a mistake thinking back.

Did you ever get to work with Alan Clarke? I think he was a BBC man, but I have a fondness of his films, SCUM, Rita Sue and Bob Too, Contact, Elephant, I like his work a lot. His portrayal of working class people has never been bettered.

What caught me eye from the trailer of Red Desert, was the use of a grey industrial landscape, and the vibrant colour of red. I think I posted the wrong trailer, I'll see if I can find it tonight when I get home.
 
Started watching 5th element again last week as it was on in the afternoon but got interupted by a fone call about work.

I like it's humour and the very basic human sub plot even though it is a sci fi film, Besson does this a lot and the love the mentor has in Nikita is so subtle, Leon is just stunning and Jean Reno just has such a character skill that belies his looks, he can do things that most actors just can not do, Gary Oldman is the same and I like his style a great deal. De Niro in Taxi Driver is a similar style and any actor wishing to learn only has to watch those three to get a good grounding in performance.

David Mathews is a huge fan of Christopher Walken another great talent and kept us amused with his impressions of him but of course the score needed a lot more cowbell !

Never worked with Alan Clarke but did a few films with Gordon Flemyng a great director and a superb ser called Finney with the actor David Hayman directing and appearing in it.
 
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Here is the correct trailer, I love the look of this film, the use of colour against the industrial greys, blows my mind. I must buy this film.

http://www.criterion.com/current/posts/1793-three-reasons-red-desert

Another thing I should have said about Besson is his use of Anamorphic, or Technovision photography. I only got interested in Anamorphic this year due to him, and John Carpenter's films. I think most Luc Besson films are about love. In Nikita it's the junkie that hates life, the Mentor that falls for the junkie, who then transforms her in to a beautiful young woman, who in turn learns to love, and love life. In Atlantis and Big Blue, it's the love of the sea and nature. In Leon it's the fathers love of the daughter. Angel-A I own, but have not seen yet, it's about love, haha.

Jean Reno, what has happened to him? I miss his presence, same with De Niro and Oldman. Your right though, if I was to be an actor, I would study Taxi Driver and Raging Bull.

Big fan of Chris Walken too, I was watching some of Deer Hunter the other night, one of the great films of the 1970's, financed by the British, EMI.

Gordon Flemyng had one hell of a career! I just checked him out on IMDB, Minder, Bergerac, Taggart, Lovejoy , etc etc. I have seen plenty of his work without knowing who he was.
 
LIke all good directors Gordon has a great skill managing people.\

Just found this older picture of my matte box, they are OK if a bit plasticky but do the job:


Yes I did see Red Desert when it was on Film 4 recently and it reminded me of my Dad's old colour slides in the 60's.

He worked for the NCB as a safety officer so I have lots of industrial type shots taken with Ektachrome 64 but this shot of me and my sister from 1966 shows it's tonal style, they try to do this look on a few modern films but it always just looks artificial to me with that washed out look but An Education came close and some of the Alexa shot BBC drama is very much spot on:
 
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What I like about that Shoot35 CINEbox is that it's a British product, or so they say.

Nice to see your pub in the background, does it still look like that? if so, could be great for a scene in a film. Interesting to see your tripod set-up too. I've just invested in the Kessler quick release system. My Manfrotto system was so annoying.

Don't laugh, but I'll try replicate that look in Magic Bullet Looks. I know I could never get it exact, but I think I could do something very similar. I'll give it a go this week. Have you seen the film, Three Kings? Some of it was shot in Ektachrome I believe, kind of reminds me of that film, with the blueish shadows.
 
I doubt if Shoot35 cinebox is a british made product at that price and is probably one of the chinese ones as it looks similar to samples I have seen on-line. Nowt wrong with that if the quality is good and it looks like the swivelling arri like one my mate has from china.

The pub interior still has the oak panels but I ripped the bar out a few years ago when it sadly closed, it cost me the price of an Arri Alexa to keep it going for three years and there comes a point when you have to stop the cash loss as I wasn't being paid either.

I got rid of my manfrotto crap years ago and chose Libec as my std tripods, I use the H50 and H55 wich OK are small 75mm bowl heads but the panny is only 8kg and around 10kg inc matte box and battery so they are very light weight. A mate had some 150mm bowl ronford legs for sale recently and he would have let me have them for only £350 but they are just too big for most of my uses and I tend to hire in or borrow grip kit if I need it.

If you can replicate that ektachrome 64 look from the 60's and 70's that would be great, I can see how people try it with digital but it always just ends up looking strange and wishy washy to me, here is another of Dad's slides this time of a bored teenager (me again) from the mid 70's. These were all shot on an old Kodak 127 camera so the colour slides are around 5x5cm format.
 
and here's a bit of a fun shot from The Wedding the very first Film 4 production in 1983. Director Gordon Flemyng in the hat is over the camera an Aaton 16mm and Tim Dowd the 1st AD is far right.
The slim chap holding the boom and scratching his head is me with Bob Rhodes the sound recordist to my left actress Meg Wynn Owen is seated near me and I can't remember the other actresses name but she was well known in the Uk for her chubby old dear character. The guy in the shorts is Michael Metcalf the PA but now a director and the guy with the big moustache is Ashley Wilkinson the designer who also did all the Catherine Cookson TV films. Dave Dixon was the DOP but he isn't on here but Chris Sutcliffe was the camera assist with Mark Lavender the clapper loader.
 
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GaryNattrass said:
I doubt if Shoot35 cinebox is a british made product at that price and is probably one of the chinese ones as it looks similar to samples I have seen on-line. Nowt wrong with that if the quality is good and it looks like the swivelling arri like one my mate has from china.
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I agree with that, must be Chinese.

GaryNattrass said:
If you can replicate that ektachrome 64 look from the 60's and 70's that would be great, I can see how people try it with digital but it always just ends up looking strange and wishy washy to me, here is another of Dad's slides this time of a bored teenager (me again) from the mid 70's. These were all shot on an old Kodak 127 camera so the colour slides are around 5x5cm format.
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That photograph is amazing!, the colours. I'll give it a go, but that red/blue/purple in the shadows might be difficult. I'm going to try it tonight, and post the result tomorrow. Don't laugh if I fail.
 
Great photo. I think you should upload, The Wedding to Youtube, it should be seen.

My Kessler Hercules head should be delivered tomorrow. After a few weeks of waiting, I just got my conformation from CVP today. I know it's not supposed to be great for pans and tilts, but it can take some serious weight. Perhaps I should have gone with Libec or Miller, but I was so impressed with Kessler's quick release system, I had to try it. Not impressed with Manfrotto, the camera plate get's stuck, and it takes two of us to pull it out. I suppose you get what you pay for. Those Ronford's are a steal at £350.
 
I like it and it looks pretty close to me although as you say a larger frame would be better to tell, can you e-mail me a frame grab.

I was thinking of the old film stock that we used and one name that tends to get forgotten is Agfa, I used their slide film a lot in the 80's as well as ektachrome 64 and tungsten 160, I also used kodachrome 25 but as everyone was using it I tended to avoid it as it was also quite slow so not a general purpose film, it was also almost too saturated but if you like your red's it is superb.

I used Agfachrome pro 2 100 asa a lot but they also did an amazing black and white transparency film called Dia Direct, it had a Fellini like high contrast look and from what I recall was the only black and white slide film available, still only asa 25 but I am sure a lot of the stills reversal stock was very similar to the 35mm. Looking again at Red Desert it has an Agfa look to it but I can't be sure as it is hard to judge but at least with digital you can try to get close to the look of a film.

I think it is important to decide an overall style before you start shooting and as you have already said you can spend ages in post re-adjusting and at times it can become counter productive.

I don't know if you have read many books on film etc but I always recommend people have a look at this old 35mm stills book as it has some good reference material and it was also my bible when I started taking stills and doing more with super 8 and 16mm, they are also cheap as chips on e-bay but have some good pages on lighting and working with film stock: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/The-35mm-...0953689541?pt=Non_Fiction&hash=item46123cddc5

I also got these two books from Blain Brown and have found them to be a good reference for higher end lighting and cinematography:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Motion-Pict...F8&qid=1378275272&sr=8-3&keywords=blain+brown
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Cinematogra...F8&qid=1378275331&sr=8-1&keywords=blain+brown

I have been having another look at that matte box and it looks great value and I may get one myself as the cavision can be cumbersome to use at times and I always liked the arri flip design.

I found my manfrotto heads dragged and I understand they just smear grease on the plates to create the drag the Libec's are proper fluid heads and I like them a lot although a larger head and sticks would be more stable but I get by with the smaller and more importantly lighter ones.
 
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P.S always liked this shot from The Last Straw as what you see on the screen was the lighting for the shot:

100 watt tungsten in the stand lamp and a 60 watt tungsten in the table lamp, I even lit the fire myself! Happy days! :)
I still have a stock of 150 watt tungsten lamps and tend to light with tungsten for drama, besides we live in the north and we need to keep the set warm!
Now who says you can't make cinema with a 1/3" chip ENG camera and as I said before I like it as it is close to the old skool super 8!:grin:
 
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It looks close to me too, I'll email you it tonight. It's a still though, I'll try it on a piece of video next, see how it looks. I have noticed when compressed, video tends to loose a lot of it's intended look and saturation. I'll upload to Vimeo when done.

Do you have an example of Dia Direct? Maybe I could try emulate that look. Any other looks you would like to see?

GaryNattrass said:
I think it is important to decide an overall style before you start shooting and as you have already said you can spend ages in post re-adjusting and at times it can become counter productive.
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Agreed, I find colour grading the hardest decision. I can spend more time grading than editing. I do enjoy finding that look though.

I bought that book, I love Ebay.

I'll give those other two books a go on pay day.

A nice review for the Shoot35 CINEbox http://www.pauljoy.com/gear/camera-accessories/shoot35-cinebox-review/

And here http://www.lecentre.net/blog/archives/1265

Too bad it doesn't come with the case now.

GaryNattrass said:
100 watt tungsten in the stand lamp and a 60 watt tungsten in the table lamp, I even lit the fire myself! Happy days! :)
I still have a stock of 150 watt tungsten lamps and tend to light with tungsten for drama, besides we live in the north and we need to keep the set warm!
Now who says you can't make cinema with a 1/3" chip ENG camera and as I said before I like it as it is close to the old skool super 8!:grin:
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Awesome, I can see the lighting like this when Margaret is watching TV, and Jack is reading the paper. :)
 
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