Hello / Classical recording to location recording

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RichT

Member
Hello-

Basically my background is in classical recording, and I'm looking to make a move towards more location sound (most people I work with have little money, and it's looking like there's less around now). I've also got quite a bit of background doing field recording, however only as a hobbyist.

I'm trying to set up a few days of shadowing of location recordists at the moment, I'm based in London- I've a couple of friends who work in broadcast (although MCR and post) who said they'd ask around.

I'm pretty confident around microphone placement etc (I've got an acoustics degree), although working around other people (especially as they're moving), and working with cameras/lights/slates/timecode are the issues I'd like to sort. And being able to attach a lavelier mic without getting slapped...

I also may be able to do a short course- I've actually got some training money available to me- would it be worth my while or would just getting more experience be more valuable (also for employment prospects)?

If anyone would like an occasional assistant for free over the next couple of months, please ask :)

As far as useable portable equipment goes, I have:
2x AKG C480B 2xC460B with 2xCK63 (+CK61s and CK62s, although they seem less appropriate)
2x AKG blue line + CK93 CK91 and CK98 (works intermittently, wouldn't trust it- ebay deal gone bad)
Sonosax SX-M2 mic pre
Edirol R-44
2x Countryman B3 (no wireless)
Sony PCM-M10

Things I don't have: working shotgun capsule
Boom pole
Descent windshield (only light foam ones which come with the mics)
Field mixer (will the r-44 do?). The sonosax pre's are great, so no quality issues (at least for 2 channels)
Wireless transmitters/receivers
Bag

An obvious choice for the mic is just getting the CK69 capsule as I've got the rest of the system, although it seems to be pretty big. I'd have to get a rycote modular windshield if I wanted a full 'zeppelin' for it, and that's the price of the mic again (could go for a softie instead). It also seems more flexible than most mics as you can change the length of the interference tube.

I've used the Rode ntg-3 and blimp and I was quite impressed (especially for the money)

Or I could get the CK98 fixed (will that cost more than the capsule's worth?)

I'm a bit lost on boompoles, to be honest- it seems to be quite a subjective thing. I'm tempted to go for the DIY (literal) fishpole solution: http://www.dvuser.co.uk/content.php?CID=6 but clients may question the 'Carpogeddon 9000'.

I like the idea of the Panamic one which doubles up as a mic stand but it's Very Expensive- is there anything cheaper that does the same thing?

I don't think you can mix down to 2 channels on the R-44 and it's got consumer level outs, so it looks like it's not going to the camera easily

Wireless seems very expensive at £600/channel for the G3, especially when it looks like the least preferable way of miking someone up. Is it worth hiring instead if the situation requires them?
 
Just my opinion, the DIY approach for the boompole is a bad idea. First it's difficult to make one that isn't subject to creaks etc as you move it around and they are heavier than purpose-built poles. Even more importantly, if you're aiming to do this a profession instead of a hobby you need to consider the impression your kit makes on clients. A producer who hires a sound-person is expecting that they're hiring a working professional who will come to the job with a fully professional set of tools in his kit, prepared to handle whatever situation the demands of the shoot will throw at him. The first day you haul out a painter's pole for a boom may well be the last day you work for that particular producer. For better or worse, appearances matter. And by the way, you may need more than one boom depending on the jobs you're going to go after. For docos, indy features, and corporates, a carbon-fibre pole around 12 feet is a good start. For ENG and interiors, supplementing that with an 8 footer, perhhaps articulated if you do a lot on ENG where you need to get the boom over a reporter's scrum surrounding a VIP. For mainstream studio features, 16 foot to as much as 22 feet aren't uncommon. When you want to put the mic on a stand, a "Boom Buddy" ie, a boat gunwale fishing pole holder, clamped to a weighted C-stand works a treat.

The R-44 is an adequate field recorder BUT it does lack timecode and as a freelance mixer you may be called on by the producer hiring you to provide timecode. Trading it in on an R-4 Pro, if you prefer sticking with the Edirol line, would be worth considering. Or take a look at the Sound Devices 702T, 744T, or 788T recorders, or Nagra, or Fostex's professional lines.

Using the output of a recorder when you need to send a mic to the camera, using the recorder as a mixer, is ike pounding nails with a monkey wrench ... you can do it, but using a proper hammer is usually more efficient. IMHO a proper, professional level, field mixer is the core of a location mixer's kit. Look at the Sound Devices 552 or a gently used 442. This lets you send stereo mix of 4 or 5 mics to the camera for single system, plus a recorder when you are doing double system. A strong reason to use one is a common need on a location shoot to send each of the mics to individual iso tracks on a multichannel recorder for production sound, plus a stereo mix to the camera for daileys and perhaps "video village" as well for on-set monitoring, plus a mono mix with timecode to be sent off for transcription. You'll find the improved routing flexibility, the generally better accessability of the level faders (gain riding is more common with dialog recording than it is for music), and better metering, as well as better limiters and HP filters, makes a proper mixer the better choice for feeding whatever recording devices you're using than is sending the mics direct to the recorder.

Sorry to break the news to you but wireless at $600 per channel for the G3 (that's US$, is it really £600 in the UK?) is just about the least expensive entry point for pro-quality wireless. Lectrosonics will run at least double that per channel and Zaxcom more than that. It really is the least preferable way to go but sometimes - often? - it's the only option. And don't forget, you may also need to send a wireless feed from your mixer to the camera so there's another stereo pair of channels to consider.
 
RichT said:
Basically my background is in classical recording, and I'm looking to make a move towards more location sound (most people I work with have little money, and it's looking like there's less around now). I've also got quite a bit of background doing field recording, however only as a hobbyist.

I'm trying to set up a few days of shadowing of location recordists at the moment, I'm based in London- I've a couple of friends who work in broadcast (although MCR and post) who said they'd ask around.
Click to expand...

Be careful, there is not a lot of work out there at the moment and a lot of sound recordists are finding it *very* tough with not enough work.



RichT said:
I'm pretty confident around microphone placement etc (I've got an acoustics degree), although working around other people (especially as they're moving), and working with cameras/lights/slates/timecode are the issues I'd like to sort. And being able to attach a lavelier mic without getting slapped...

I also may be able to do a short course- I've actually got some training money available to me- would it be worth my while or would just getting more experience be more valuable (also for employment prospects)?
Click to expand...

Training - talk to the NFTS at Beaconsfield - it's the only training option for the industry if you want to work. I think ythey do short courses and specials as well as complete courses. Their website is HERE.

It is also worth Joining the Institute of Broadcast Sound. They are running a Training Weekend at the NFTS in Beaconsfield in January which you would find extremely useful in itself, as well as the perfect opportunity to network with pthers sound recordists.



RichT said:
If anyone would like an occasional assistant for free over the next couple of months, please ask :)
Click to expand...

Not me - but if you join the IBS and go to the Training Weekend in January you may find a placing. The IBS are also doing mentoring placements with exoerienced recordists that you may well find useful.



RichT said:
As far as useable portable equipment goes, I have:
2x AKG C480B 2xC460B with 2xCK63 (+CK61s and CK62s, although they seem less appropriate)
2x AKG blue line + CK93 CK91 and CK98 (works intermittently, wouldn't trust it- ebay deal gone bad)
Sonosax SX-M2 mic pre
Edirol R-44
2x Countryman B3 (no wireless)
Sony PCM-M10

Things I don't have: working shotgun capsule
Boom pole
Descent windshield (only light foam ones which come with the mics)
Field mixer (will the r-44 do?). The sonosax pre's are great, so no quality issues (at least for 2 channels)
Wireless transmitters/receivers
Bag

An obvious choice for the mic is just getting the CK69 capsule as I've got the rest of the system, although it seems to be pretty big. I'd have to get a rycote modular windshield if I wanted a full 'zeppelin' for it, and that's the price of the mic again (could go for a softie instead). It also seems more flexible than most mics as you can change the length of the interference tube.

I've used the Rode ntg-3 and blimp and I was quite impressed (especially for the money)

Or I could get the CK98 fixed (will that cost more than the capsule's worth?)

I'm a bit lost on boompoles, to be honest- it seems to be quite a subjective thing. I'm tempted to go for the DIY (literal) fishpole solution: http://www.dvuser.co.uk/content.php?CID=6 but clients may question the 'Carpogeddon 9000'.

I like the idea of the Panamic one which doubles up as a mic stand but it's Very Expensive- is there anything cheaper that does the same thing?

I don't think you can mix down to 2 channels on the R-44 and it's got consumer level outs, so it looks like it's not going to the camera easily

Wireless seems very expensive at £600/channel for the G3, especially when it looks like the least preferable way of miking someone up. Is it worth hiring instead if the situation requires them?
Click to expand...

OK - to get work yo do need the proper kit.

Minimum:-
Sennhesier MKH 416 with full Rycote windshield kit.
Mixer / recorder:
Many are now using the Sound Devices 788T as the recorder of choice, others are using the Sound Devices 552 mixer with built-in recorder. You may get away with the 744T with a mixer, but as this is likely to be more expensive than a 552 or 788T, the former is the better option.

Although the R-44 is great for the price, it won't cut it as a pro location recorder if you want work.

The radiomics most popular with UK recordists are the Audio Ltd. range, but these are about two grand a set. The Sennheiser G3 series is a good alternative and many sound recordists are getting these as well, especially as the small receiver is now diversity. But go for the 2000 series if you can as it is more flexible and professional. Oh, and £600 a channel for pro. radio is actually very cheap, not very expensive. MAke sure you get UK legal frequencies and get a licence. The new channel for location radio is Ch.38 (G3 version "GB"). Do *not*, under any circumstances, get Ch.69 (G3 version "E") as this will be illegal after 2012. You are likely to need at least two channels of radio, possibly four.

For boom poles I would look at Ambient or Panamic and nothing less, really. Although Rycote do some reasonable and not too expensive ones.

The Sonosax is one of the best and most expensive pieces of kit around and surprises me as it seems out of place compared to all your other stuff.

Headphones - the Sennheiser HD 25-1 are the industry standard in the UK. Closed and *very* efficient and excellent for location monitoring.

On a slightly different note, you may find linking up with the British Sound Recording Association useful. Subs are only about £22 a year and members are keen amateurs wit some broadcast professionals.

I hope this all helps.
 
Thanks very much Steve and John (I seem to see you around the boards quite a lot), lots of useful info there- although it seems to be more expensive than I expected, especially as Sound Devices kit seems to also be £=$ at the moment, so I may hold back on any purchases for the time being and see if I can get some more experience first. It also looks like a loan would be in order if I'm going go ahead with this.

The NFTS are doing a short course at the end of January, so I'll see about getting on that. I had a look at the skillset website re: bursaries, although they seem to only offer them if you have TV/Film experience (which seems a bit catch 22). I'll also have a look at the IBS

As far as gear's concerned, I forgot to mention headphones- I've got Sony 7506's, I find them more comfortable than HD-25's. The Sonosax was a particularly lucky ebay buy (£250)- I've had a lot of use out of it (makes up for the CK98 and a battered HD-P2). Looks like a full rycote kit is in order- thought their open day might be a good opportunity to have a look, however it's on at the same time as the NFTS course.

Just to check, the 552 doesn't have timecode and the 788T would work as both a mixer and recorder (with the control knobs)? Also SQN mixers seem to be fairly 'standard' (or at least have been) over here- or have SD superseded them now?

Finally the BSRA reminded me of this piece about the Leicester tape recording society, which was used as an installation in an event I was involved in: http://soundandmusic.org/thecollection/node/126818
 
The HD 25-1 are a lot more comfortable with the velour earpads - I use these on mine and they now come bundled with the latest version.

As you are based in London I would suggest hiring from Richmond Film Services - they are the best and are also the cheapest around when it comes to broadcast hire.

The 788T is an 8-track machine, so you can record all 8-tracks. You can also do a mix to stereo in the machine.
 
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