Headphone amp with through?

FiddlerMD

FiddlerMD

Well-known member
This isn't exactly video related but I am looking for something like this:

I play a violin in a rock band so monitoring is often an issue since I tend to stand next to ridiculous drum kits and guitar amps :)
What I want is (in theory) very simple. A belt-pack (or at least portable) headphone amp that can connect to my violin pickup and still allow a through channel to connect to the mixer. basically like this:

violin -> headphone amp
headphone amp -> headphones
headphone amp -> line out
line out -> mixer

I am positive that something like this has to exist and from my rudimentary knowledge of circuits and electronics i know this should be fairly simple to build (that is, shouldnt cost $400). The only live monitoring systems i've been able to find are complex wireless rigs which I simply don't need.

On the other side, most headphone amps don't have a line through. Final concern is that the amp should not degrade the signal coming out of the pickup.

Thanks all and check out www.sevenwaysout.com for our work :)
 
I'm assuming that the audio coming from the violin is line level, and it's probably a 1/4" connector. That should be going through a DI box to give you mic level, balanced signal to the PA board. Virtually every DI box out there has at least 3 connections, the 1/4" in, an XLR out, and a 1/4" through. Connect that 1/4" through to the headphone amp and you're good to go.

To protect your hearing from those obnoxiously loud drummers and guitarists (and to let you hear yourself without having to crank things up too high) get yourself some decent isolating earbuds (Shure makes them at an array of price points, starting under $100) and get custom sleeves made for them to fit your ears at an audiologist (also under $100).
 
The problem with running headphones off DI is the mess of wires. Being a violin player, I tend to move on stage and the violin doesnt always remain glued to me so an extra wire running to the floor would kinda be annoying. This is why it would be great to just have a beltpack or something w/ headphones and just the 1 cable to the floor.
Also, as far as earbuds, I don't want to put 2 headphones in cause then I cant hear everyone else - i'd probably just do a monophone, but tha'ts really a secondary concern at this point

and yes the audio coming out is line level to a DI. (pretty hot line level but still - this pick up benefits from phantom power but doesnt require it)
 
Yeah, the mess of wires gets annoying quickly. Perhaps one of the Sound Devices MM-1 could do the job? It's technically a mic pre so there may be mic/line level issues to work out, but it does seem to have everything else you're looking for.
 
It will probably be better to leave the violin connected as t is now and use in in-ear monitor system back from the mixer.
 
Rolls

Rolls

Rolls Personal Monitor Amp PM50 sOB. It can be found for as little as $50. I use it all the time with my DVX-100. The main reason I started was my headphone output is blown. So I use the RCA out via adapters it is amazing. You can pass through your Violin and get a mixed monitor feed from the soundboard. With individual controls for both while not effecting the sound sent to the board.
 
Hmm that Rolls unit looks pretty good - I'm just wondering if the mic inputs/outputs will be an issue since mic levels tend to be different than pickups witha 1/4" jack
 
here's a dumb question - I i get a 1/4" Y splitter, 1 side goes to headphone amp, the other to the mixer - is this a sufficient enough "through" channel? seems like it would be, but don't knwo if it requires any type of "protection" .. comon, where are all the electrical/audio engineers?!

if you look at the manual for the rolls device, it has a schematic for the device, and it seems that's exactly what it's doing for the "through".
 
John Willett said:
It will probably be better to leave the violin connected as t is now and use in in-ear monitor system back from the mixer.
Click to expand...

I specifically want to avoid this, since these tend to be very expensive an in a lot of these clubs, i woudlnt trust the engineers very much :)
 
FiddlerMD said:
here's a dumb question - I i get a 1/4" Y splitter, 1 side goes to headphone amp, the other to the mixer - is this a sufficient enough "through" channel? seems like it would be, but don't knwo if it requires any type of "protection" .. comon, where are all the electrical/audio engineers?!

if you look at the manual for the rolls device, it has a schematic for the device, and it seems that's exactly what it's doing for the "through".
Click to expand...

In my experience, violin pickups tend to produce fairly hot signals, so splitting it shouldn't have too detrimental and effect on your sound quality to the board.

Perhaps I'm reading this wrong, but it sounds to me like you guys aren't using ANY sort of monitoring on stage, is this the case?
 
No - there are proper stage monitors in every club we play .. the problem is the levels - i'm sure if ever you go to a live performance, the first thing u hear is every band member asking to be turned up in the monitors :)
It's especially bad for voice and acoustic instruments. If you watch the video posted on our site's home page, you'll see in some parts i screw up pretty royally - a lot of these were due to the fact that I coudlnt hear myself at all.
anyways - I think i've decided that I'll got the Y-cable route - now to find a headphone amp that can push enough power through and still be portable and battery operated...
oh .. and <$80 or so
 
Yeah, I've done live sound for years, I know the horrors that are most venue sound systems. In so many places monitoring is an afterthought at best.

As for the phone amp, perhaps this version of the Rolls mentioned earlier would work for you. You could go from the splitter and into the monitor in on the Rolls and just not use the Mic preamp portion of the device.
 
yeah this seems to be the only thing even close to what I'm looking for. what I wonder is whether my pickup puts out enough of a signal to drive this thing.
Also - anyone know of a decent in-ear monophone? more common solution seems to be to cut off or "dangle" a regular pair of headphones but a dedicated monophone would be preferred
 
Fiddler,

Just a note here to correct a wrong impression stated earlier.

ALL transducers, including piezoelectric, produce what is known as Instrument level output signal. Instrument level is higher in signal strength than Mic level, but lower than Line level.

Instrument level should normally be run through a preamp for proper gain staging before being fed to a power amp. That preamp is normally the input stage of the instrument amp it's plugged into. OR if going into a mixer, one can use a DI box. A passive DI box converts the signal to a balanced signal at mic level for XLR or TRS input to a mixer's mic inputs. Active DI's boost the instrument level to line level for line level input to a mixer.

Piezoelectric transducers are usually "hotter" then a normal guitar pickup, but are not at line level. However, some amps labeled as "line input" may be able to use that input.

What this means to you is that the headphone amp that you come up with will need to be capable of amplifying that instrument level signal from your pickup. This only means that you should definitely try it before you buy it.

The ROllS unit mentioned earlier might be the thing to use since they have now put a battery in it. You might also want to take a look at the Boss Micro BR which is also battery powered and smaller. On the third hand, the Sound devices MM-1 would be the most rugged and bullet proof. The splitter might be a good idea IF you get a splitter with transformer isolation in it.


Ken
 
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