Have good mics- best other sound improvements over internal?

E

epicedium

Well-known member
Hi there,

We run 2x XL2s, we're happy with our mics, Sennheiser 416 / AKG Blueline with hyper cap, Sennheiser G2 122 w/ME4 lav, Rycote Blimp, etc.

I'm actually very happy with sound quality, apart from the following -- preamp noise / noise floor, and practicality of a boom operator being able to monitor the sound.

What is the cheapest way for me to improve our setup? We only need one kit, as we only shoot in a multi-cam setup, not simultaniously in different locations.

This would be chiefly for film work, but also events/interviews/etc. The cam op (i.e. me) is perfectly capable of levelling audio, so I'm not too worried about the boom op being able to mix/level ... BUT .. I'm thinking that the boom op should really be able to hear for any problems, and a solution better than running a long extention lead from the camera would be good.

The fostex fr-2 sounds ideal, but it's too expensive. The fostex fr-2le is at the top-end of what we want to spent, but it doesn't do TC, so syncing up would be a nightmare.

As far as I can see, there are no serious options for HD/CF recorders with solid pre-amps and TC below this price? So if I need to go lower my best bet is to improve my pre-amps and go straight to the camera's respectable 16/48 uncompressed?

What are my other options? Would strapping a Sound Devices MM-1 to the boom operator and running the line-level sound to an XL2 give a very real improvement over the internal pre-amps? Am I right in thinking that the boom op has no way of telling if he's properly levelled (or peaking) with the MM-1 / MP-1 type units, and that they're only really useful for strapping to the camera body where I can level myself?

In this case, is a MixPre the only way for the sound guy / boom op to do a really good job of riding the levels and keeping things in order? If I go for a MM-1 or MixPre then I can obviously add a hd recorder later and not have to worry about solid mixing / pre-amping.

BUT, the MixPre is obviously not cheap, so I'm back in the territory of looking at the fostex p2 and thinking that the 24bit / hd recording / etc is probably worth the extra over going from Mic->mixpre->Cam.

Any advices would be appreciated- there's bound to be a bunch of stuff I've overlooked, so any pointers would be helpful.

Oh, and I'm UK-based, so relative prices between brands/models won't necessarily be the same as in the US.

cheers,

Kris

thehold.co.uk
 
If you have already built a solid microphone platform then the next logical stage is to add a mixer. From the mixer you add a solid external recorder. From the external recorder a time code slate.

Wind protection and improved shockmount is also a great place to start, but there isn't much to sound...

-Jeremy
 
I agree with TheYankee, a mixer is the next logical step. In particular, a mixer with a second line-out for the other cameras would potentially save time in post-production (and give you a safety backup of your production sound).

Sound Device's products are great (some of the best mixers out there), but you may want to check out other manufacturers. Wendt and PSC both offer comparable products, and plenty of bang for your buck.

Since cost is a factor, keep your eyes open for a used Shure FP-33. There are plenty of them out there, and many rental places are currently ditching their FP-33's in favour of SD-302's. Of course, they're no where near as good as an SD-302, but the FP-33's have had a solid track record over the years. Of course, the usual caveats apply with used gear (ie. "don't get stuck with somebody else's problem"). Add to one of them a breakaway cable with a headphone return, and you'll be in fine shape.

On the topic of headphone returns, epicedium, I got the impression from your post that your boom op' wasn't monitoring the signal. Not only is it crucial that the boom op' is able listen for problems, but without a headphone return the boom op' is just guessing on mic placement and pickup axis (not to mention sibbilance, phasing and handling noise). Even if you don't opt for a mixer, either A) make a custom mic cable that includes a boom headphone return, or B) tape a headphone return cable to your mic cable.
 
Cheers for the advice! Can I just re-iterate a couple of questions more directly?

1. Am I better off spending money on a SD MixPre and recording to Camera (with the intention of buying a HD recorder later), rather than saving up for a fostex fr-2 and having no separate mixer at all? How do the pre-amps of a device like the FR-2 (~US$1000) compare to the SD MixPre?

2. If I'm comfortable with levelling at the camera, would strapping a MP/MM-1 (single channel sound-devices pre-amp) to the side of my camera and running a custom XLR+headphone return cable to the boom be a viable option? I'm seriously considering this.

3. How much of an improvement in sound (and noise floor) would I get from putting a MixPre between my mics and my cameras?

cheers!
Kris
 
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