Has anyone here sold a feature to a direct-to-video distrubtor?

Artman009

Artman009

Active member
I'm soon going to be working on a low-budget genre picture that I hope to sell to a DTV distributor at the end of the year (or whenever I finish) and I was curious to know what kind of deals there are out there, things I should watch out for, etc.

So, does anybody got any first hand experiences they'd like to share?

-- Artman009
 
Well , that is a very involved question to answer simply. AFM is a good meeting place to sell calves and VOD rights. It most cases with Major players such as SONY, LIONSGATE, etc you will need an agent, and you will need to purchase E&O insurance at point of sale.
What kind of film is it, Horror, Comedy,etc? Any Stars or B Stars attached?
What format r u shooting it on? All of this will detemine purchace price and sales options.
Cheers
 
Well, I am not looking for specific advise on my project more than I am simply curious in hearing from others about their past experiences with selling/leasing their product to DTV distributors.

For example, I've heard in the past that often times filmmakers, when shopping around their finished movie to distributors, get offered two basic choices--a flat sum of money (somewhere between $20k - $40k) for full rights of the product for all time or little-to-no money up front but a percentage on each unit sold, then after 5-10 years, all rights of the product revert back to the filmmaker. I was curious just how true that was and if anybody had done either route.

But if you must know the details on my project, the genre is of the thriller/horror genre, no major stars, will have a 80-90 minute run time, speaking language will be English, the movie will feature nudity (might sound silly but I have heard this actually makes a difference with distributors, especially of this genre), and the final product (at least, physical) will be DVD/Blu-Ray.


So, is my question still too broad?

-- Artman009
 
You are on the right track , running time, Nudity, DVD, etc... Most distributors will want nudity and gore if is a horror film. A buy out is always the best way to go because it will be next to impossible , even with a contract to track sales and percentages, been there done that. Don't break up the projects rights, keep them inclusive so a big company has the option & can take all territories , DVD, VOD etc...You could ask for an amount up front that you can feel comfortable with and then negotiate with percentages as well, if you never end up seeing that , at least you got up front money. We have done many different kinds of deals and the best, most lucrative was through an agent such as CA or William Morris ,etc... Sony Pictures pays up front and gives percentages, the selling party will be required to have all paperwork, releases, Sag contracts and E&O insurance in place as well.
Hope this helps
Cheers
 
What we're finding talking with dist rep's is- in the horror/thriller genre there is a glut of movies and you really have to rise to the top with a quality story and a twist that nobody else has done, it has to be great technically. I'd hire an experienced DP, Gaffer and sound guy. Shoot RED or 35mm or TRUE HD (Sony 900 or Pana Veri cam). A b-actor wouldn't hurt. Keep Your Budget as Low as possible. And don't be offended if they offer you $10 grand for your movie.

This is NOT specific advice for your project- this is what a distribution consultant from LA is saying. I'm helping to produce a Thriller/zombie movie and we've shot a trailer that attracted distributors (they contacted us) and in turn leveraged the funds from investors. We are cautiously trying to follow this template and still it's a high risk. This is just advice given to us by folks in the Distribution game. Passing it along
Good luck.

check out the trailer at:
http://www.killingfieldsmovie.com
 
Allen Green said:
What we're finding talking with dist rep's is- in the horror/thriller genre there is a glut of movies and you really have to rise to the top with a quality story and a twist that nobody else has done, it has to be great technically. I'd hire an experienced DP, Gaffer and sound guy. Shoot RED or 35mm or TRUE HD (Sony 900 or Pana Veri cam). A b-actor wouldn't hurt. Keep Your Budget as Low as possible. And don't be offended if they offer you $10 grand for your movie.
Click to expand...

Wow. Hire a professional DP, gaffer, sound guy, shoot with RED or on 35mm, keep budget as low as possible and settle if offered only $10,000 dollars? Correct me if I am wrong but that sounds like a horrible return for what you pay. Even if you were to just rent a RED camera for an average shoot (local dealers near me are charging $750 a day) and if you were to hire professional people, it's gonna cost you and/or your investors a lot more than $10,000.

I would think, as a filmmaker/businessman, you'd at least like to break even, no?

Allen Green said:
This is NOT specific advice for your project- this is what a distribution consultant from LA is saying. I'm helping to produce a Thriller/zombie movie and we've shot a trailer that attracted distributors (they contacted us) and in turn leveraged the funds from investors.
Click to expand...

May I ask what budget you guys are aiming for? Also, what format the finished product going to be shot on? (HDV, Red, 35mm, etc)

(Cool trailer, btw).

-- Artman009
 
I've sold two of my own dtv features. I've also been involved in several other micro budget production that have sold to maverick entertainment, lightyear entertainment, Anthem Pictures Shoreline entertainment and York entertainment.

When selling a micro-budget movie (anything under 20k) you're best hope is to get a flat sell for it. You can get anywhere from 10 to 30k depending on the project and more importantly your track record. Chances are, if it's you're 1st feature and isn't citzen kane, you're not going to see any money. It took me finishing and selling two features before I got an actual money offer on the third, which I just finished.

I know several other filmmakers who have taken the same route. They kept making very small movies. some dv, some hd. But it took them between two and five features before they really started seeing money. And another four or five after that before they got any real money to make a feature (over 500k)

The most important thing when selling is not the production value. It's not the dp, camera you use. it's the concept. Is it marketable? Is it something the distributor can sell. neither of my 1st two features were masterpieces by any stretch. One was shot on DV. The other HDV. Nor did they feature nudity or excessive gore, but they were concepts that at the time were selling and I had good art work, so distributors bit.

In my opinion the important thing is to get out there and shoot by any means neccessary, on whatever camera you can get your hands on. Keep your costs low. So if you don't make the money back, it's not killing you. I financed my first feature with money I made working a mininum wage job. All the talk of DV not being able to sell is not so. If you finish a project with a marketable concept, that can pass a QC, regardless of your shooting format, you will sell it. It is true that it's getting tougher on dvd out there, but there are still buyers. If you're going to spend more money on anything, spend it on sound. Post. I've seen more movies fail QC for sound than any picture issues.

I know filmmakers out there that produce DTV features for 4-7k a piece and have standing deals with distributors for 20-30k per feature. Most of these movies suck. But they fill a niche and they sell.

I just finished a feature, budgeted at 5k. shot with 2 dxv100's and I got distribution locked with a guranteed upfront sell. The feature is still in post. It's all about concept and track record.
 
Allen Green said:
What we're finding talking with dist rep's is- in the horror/thriller genre there is a glut of movies and you really have to rise to the top with a quality story and a twist that nobody else has done, it has to be great technically. I'd hire an experienced DP, Gaffer and sound guy. Shoot RED or 35mm or TRUE HD (Sony 900 or Pana Veri cam). A b-actor wouldn't hurt. Keep Your Budget as Low as possible. And don't be offended if they offer you $10 grand for your movie. ...
Click to expand...

This is exactly the information which has been coming out of the AFM recently. Its more than just a glut in the horror genre, more like a psunami!! Everyone and their grandmother with a handycam is out making a horror flick.
 
The last film my company did was a "horror" but working with the writer/director, it was rewritten to be PG-13 and more of a psychological thriller to really bring out the characters that were already well defined. It was also a way to differentiate from all the slasher type horror being done - and as mentioned, a ton of it is being made.

We were lucky to get a sales agent behind it and have already sold into Japan - and interestingly enough Italy bought the stage rights for a stage premiere in December 2010. Another revenue stream for the film. They will be bringing it to other markets around the world. But getting the basics down such as good story, oeformance, production value (camera, editing, color) and differentiation - it needs to stand out in some way. There is no formula - as William Goldman writes in "Adventures in the Screen Trade" - "Nobody Knows Anything."

Michael
 
Wow

Wow

I have no idea how you'd make a feature for under $10,000, lol, that just sounds absurd to me. I've shot a $10,000 music video! Even it wasn't the most amazing thing ever, I mean it has been to 17 festivals (and won twice) but come on, it was low budget for what it was, I was wishing we had another $10,000.

So I'm going to try to get over my disbelief, and belief that you can't make any good feature for under $100K (which is basically true, lol), and ask what exactly would you do to make this? I mean what kind of crew would be involved, as far as number, professionalism (amateur, hobbyist, pro, etc.), positions, etc. I just cannot picture this. I mean we were doing excellent to keep costs down on our short comedy (sub 10 minutes) to about $9,000 (and that's also because we used almost exclusively equipment I own, which would have cost about $1,500 to rent at least). It's just not something I can picture making an entire feature for that. Our crew was very minimal -- we had no craft services person, no makeup artist (our co-producer was an actress, makeup person, craft services, etc.), etc. But just hiring a professional to do sound, editing, camera work, and all of that adds up fast. Heck we got one location totally free and used it for two different script locations, and we got our other location VERY cheap (an entire restaurant for a day for $500) through a favor, so it's just impossible for me to understand how you can make a feature for these amounts.

I guess I can picture making something uber-crappy with 3 of your buddies that just happens to run 90 minutes long, but to me "Feature Film" is a sacred term and running time alone does not a feature make.
 
Well it can be done... but it takes a long time to do it. Although we shot in 11 days, post was almost twp years based on schedule (day job) and calling in favors. But I will also say I don't want to do that again.

Michael
 
i really don't see what's so impossible beyond imagination that a feature can't be made for under $10k?

i met a guy at a festival that made a feature, shot on one HD cam, for just under $3k and it wasn't crap. from a technical standpoint there were a coupla rough spots in the audio, but other than that i noticed the feedback he got from the average person just looking at it from an indie movie standpoint said it looked and sounded good. he had a good story and it was simple. i think they have a trailer up if i can find the link, but i wouldn't be surprised if he sells it and makes a nice profit.

like micahelp, it took him a long time in post (about 5 months) and took 10 months to shoot. that was the biggest thing...short on resources and went longer into production.

...but to say it is so unimaginable/unbelievable to do a feature under $10k unless it's utter crap is just ridiculous.
 
I read a few articles and interviews over the years that all mention similar perspectives regarding budgets when it comes to non-hollywood independent films and that is....

The more creative filmmakers can be, the less money they will need. It's possible to make a quality feature film for 10K or less depending on the skills and creativity of everyone involved in a particular project. Many filmmakers who have made a name for themselves outside of the major U.S. areas of L.A., NY, Chicago, Florida, Atlanta, Texas and the like have done so inexpensively and it's such a blessing that we can have filmmakers in obscure places like Kansas making films for the bare minimums and do not worry about just spending money all over the place because they are not jaded and pigeonholed into thinking that they need money, money and more money to make good movies.

To answer the initial question in this thread.....

I had an offer for one of my shorts that was that #2 option listed which was receiving money on the backend for all territories.

I know more than one filmmaker who had their films picked up by York. One got an advance in the range that you mentioned and the other got the backend deal based on any future sales. I guess it all depends on the type of film you are marketing or trying to get distributed. I noticed that the filmmaker who received the backend option released another movie that got picked up by another distributor. I contacted the filmmaker for information on how it happend but have not received a response. It's been maybe three months, so my guess is that a response is not coming.

There has been a lot of industry talk this year about indie film acquisitions declining and even money from foreign distributors are starting to dry up, making it difficult for indie films to get distribution or anything on the front end as far as revenue is concerned. I read an interview and article last month that stated distributors are looking for product that they know can sell easily.
 
An example of an excellent film made for only $5K is THE RECEPTION by John G. Young (Black Water Films), released in 2005. I believe it was shot on a DVX. (The DVD has a great commentary track that explains how costs were kept down in various aspects of production.)
 
I guess I can see how if you really stretch out the time, that could save money, skeleton crew perhaps, really long shooting schedule, trying to call in favors, but also it would seem that you would need some solid technical skills yourself.

Whenever budgets are discussed I find it all non-sense because it's never much based on reality anyway. It's like, "Well I only spent $10,000," but then this person spent 2 years doing post-production and thousands of hours. Uhh, that's not $10,000, that's $200,000. There's a difference. Just because you didn't pay yourself anything and you learned personally how to edit, how to do post sound, how to do everything you could, etc., doesn't somehow make it only a $10,000 film. It just makes it a $200,000 film with a $190,000 unpaid position.

One way or another, though, making a feature film costs A LOT of money, and making it properly costs at least $100,000 and that's very, very difficult. Ask any studio if you can make a fully professional film that looks and sounds like people expect movies to look and sound and do it for like $10,000 and they will laugh at you. If it could be done, they'd be doing it. A $1 million budget is a very tiny budget, but it is the minimum of what might constitute a "real budget" for a film. A $100,000 budget is a total joke, but it can be done if you pull everything together just right. A $10,000 budget is amateur hour and a half.
 
I agree - if time is money it would be a totally different scenario - but that's the trade-off one has to make being an independent filmmaker. The one thing I always caution filmmakers at festivals, panels, etc, is to know your own limits. Just because the tools may allow you to do something doesn't mean you should be doing it. Get someone who can. That will result in the best results possible giving you a better chance for a sale.

Although I have been editing features for years, when I put my producer hat on for the last film I brought on another editor to co-edit with me that had the experience with the type of film being made. I wanted to make sure that sensitivity was brought to the film that perhaps I would have missed. We were able to come up with really nice moments to really bring the performances out. This is but one of the many examples.

Michael
 
Hi first post. It seems like the major challenge is post sound. Most viewers can live with sub-par visuals with a good story, but sound is the achilles heel of no-budget filmakers.
If you can solve this before you start you might have a chance.
I love "Stranger than Paradise" and early Fassbinder films and consider them to be professional films. So for my mileage pro films could be made for ten grande with a redone
(I know what the rates are but have seen lots of good dps who want to build a reel on a good project). Would anyone go to see them in hollywood numbers, no , to me that doesn't matter. Would they be able to recoup investment? probably. I understand that these filmakers are genius, point is that it is possible to make a pro film, if it was somewhat limited in scope for 10k.
 
there's tons of things a studio would have to pay for versus five dudes with a camera, using free locations, a crew working for nothing and a handful of good actors who are non SAG trying to get their name out there. one of the main reasons the person i mentioned took that long was because everyone was still working a day job Monday through Friday, it's not like the guy spent a year and a half worth of man hours solely on editing, production, etc. anybody that takes that long (2 years) either doesn't know what they're doing, figuring it out as they go along. or bit off way more than they can chew for a low budget indie and probably shoulda picked something that required as little time in post as possible.

i don't know, i just kinda roll my eyes at people that say certain things can't be done unless it's shi*. it's pretty much like saying "well if I can't do it and nobody I know can't do it then there's no way it can be done. quit while you're ahead." i agree there's a lot of crappy films out there, but it also depends on what you consider crap. if everything has to be shot on either film or RED at the minimum for you to accept the quality alone, the actors have to be as good as Denzel or the next Tom Hanks and the editing has to be flashier than a rock music video on acid, then yea, anything under $10k to $100k is crap most likely.
 
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Wow! A lot of activity on this thread.

Thanks for all of the info people but does anybody have any examples they can share on their own projects or the ones that people said their friends did? Trailers, IMDB pages, making-of Blogs, media packets, etc? I am just curious to see the kinds of product that were bought and for how much (I don't necessarily mean exact dollar figures but just a good general idea)?

Also, what distributors did you/they go with? I know the market is constantly changing and companies come and go but surely there are some still out there that have been around more than a few years, no?

-- Artman009
 
MichaelP said:
The last film my company did was a "horror" but working with the writer/director, it was rewritten to be PG-13 and more of a psychological thriller to really bring out the characters that were already well defined. It was also a way to differentiate from all the slasher type horror being done - and as mentioned, a ton of it is being made.

We were lucky to get a sales agent behind it and have already sold into Japan - and interestingly enough Italy bought the stage rights for a stage premiere in December 2010. Another revenue stream for the film. They will be bringing it to other markets around the world.
Click to expand...

Michael, I assume the horror movie you're referring to "Jack in the Box" that is linked at the bottom of your post--it looks cool and well done. Do you know the budget? Production time (the actual shooting, that is)?

-- Artman009
 
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