CameronMcC
Well-known member
True but it doesn't come with any clamps. Most people would require at least one at a charge of 60 bucks
Halo Rig HD vs The Fig Rig - Whats your take on them or a better solution
- Thread starter CameronMcC
- Start date
True but it doesn't come with any clamps. Most people would require at least one at a charge of 60 bucks
MadHMC150
DVXuser Sponsor
Thanks Cameron for clarifying.
There has been no noticeable difference between footage shot on the Original or HD. There really is not much weight difference between the 2, therefor not making one more stable than the other.
They are in the process of being weighed. I'll keep you posted.
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Well the latter statement is not strictly true. Consider, a circular ring being rotated, let's say, by way of example, the front free wheel on an upturned bicycle. Rotate that wheel by 90 degrees. Does it move? No. Now consider a semi-circle (flat side at the bottom). Rotate it by 90 degrees. What happens? Case in point? Granted, the Halo HD design is not strictly a half-circle, but the same underlying physical principles apply.
So, yes, I would suggest that the cut-down Halo HD design does have intrinsically less rotational stability than a full circle rig.
As for fore and aft tilts, well, that`s really just a simple question of how much chopping off the bottom segment of the hoop shifts the horizontal (90 degree tilt) balance (pivot) point - which is where you want to position your hands for a controlled tilt. Given that the hoop is made of PVC, probably not that much. Of course, it depends on the weight of the base plate also. One assumes that you have taken these `questions of balance`into consideration.
For simple horizontal pans, I cant see there would be any difference.
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MadHMC150
DVXuser Sponsor
Interesting how your 1st posts are to try and discredit a rig that you have not even seen or used. Your balance example is based on a wheel that would have a center rotating axis, spinning along on its side - all things not happening with a figrig type stabilizer. Being brave enough to attempt some dutch tilts is about the extent of it. Also, with your example adding a mic or light to the top of the rig would compromise the whole deal - which is just not the case.
Tilting up or down hardly has to do with what minimal extra material is on the bottom of the rig. As you mentioned is rather where you position your hands on the outside halo that adjusts the balance of the rig for tilt. Pan also has no variation since the camera sits in the middle of the 2 hands.
Using a figrig style stabilizer is a hand held alternative. Just like shoulder mounts or any other rig - It also has more to do with the stability and skill-set of the user. Someone like myself or Perrone could produce some great shots with all the practice had- pan, tilt, boom, dolly whatever. Where as a new user would want to practice for a few hours and review his footage to see how it handles.
Tilting up or down hardly has to do with what minimal extra material is on the bottom of the rig. As you mentioned is rather where you position your hands on the outside halo that adjusts the balance of the rig for tilt. Pan also has no variation since the camera sits in the middle of the 2 hands.
Using a figrig style stabilizer is a hand held alternative. Just like shoulder mounts or any other rig - It also has more to do with the stability and skill-set of the user. Someone like myself or Perrone could produce some great shots with all the practice had- pan, tilt, boom, dolly whatever. Where as a new user would want to practice for a few hours and review his footage to see how it handles.
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PerroneFord
Deals in Lead
LOL! I'm not THAT good... I've had maybe 15 hours on the FIg. Certainly no expert. But I can do the basic moves pretty well. I think had I gotten a Fig or a Halo when I was shooting the DVX regularly, I'd be using the heck out of it. But with the EX1, it's just SO heavy, I don't want to use it much. I use it as a dolly replacement, or a crane replacement since I can't buy those two pieces of gear.
As you said, these things are just handheld replacements. They are not steadicams, and don't have great dynamic balance. They merely smooth out rough handheld motion.
As you said, these things are just handheld replacements. They are not steadicams, and don't have great dynamic balance. They merely smooth out rough handheld motion.
Now why would I do that?
Basically, all I am saying is that in promoting your cut-down HD Halo version as some sort of improvement on the circular fig-rig design, you do not seem to realize that in doing so you are actually creating a degree of rotational instability. The analogy I gave to a rotating wheel is perfectly valid. If you dont understand or accept that, maybe you should research and educate yourself on the physical mechanics and theory involved.
Of course, adding accessories to the structure affects the dynamics, but that is precisely the point. As I commented in my first post, a circular structure is better able to evenly distribute these irregular forces and to keep the mass and gravitational potential centralized and uniform as the structure is rotated i.e. in theory, better control at both the fine and macro level. For this reason also, attaching accessories to the inside of the ring is, wherever possible, preferable to attaching them on the outside.
Chop the bottom off the ring, and you might as well chop the same off the top and sides. Oh, look now it's a square. No need for those corners either. Hey, an octagon. Might as well make it a circle.
Presumably you will be exhibiting at NAB this year.....next to Manfrotto.
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CameronMcC
Well-known member
that whole thread is worthy of a look http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=54867&highlight=7,033,088
Looking at the fig-rig patent, I see that it also makes provision for an inflatable rig - prototype here:
http://www.red-mullet.com/home.html
(click on Fig Rig on top menu, then 'Inflatable Camera Rig Stabilizer Prototype')
Maybe a 'Bubble-Cam' or 'Fhlug-Rlugh". Wow, now that would turn a few heads walking down the street. Imagine the local newspaper headlines 'Cameraman attacked and engulfed by giant amoeba'.....'hospitalized, but in a stable condition'
Going back to the fig-rig design, I'm revising my thoughts on 'lightest being best'. Of course, a light rig is easier to hold outstretched, but there is a point where it becomes too light to control well - not only does the body expect a certain degree of gravitational resistance/tension, the irregular forces introduced by attached accessories will be less easily distributed by the structure.
As Mike Figgis commented in the 'fig-rig story' - "There is just enough weight to turn gravity to an advantage".
http://www.red-mullet.com/cgi-bin/page.cgi?page=1000112&back=fig+rig~~
Probably one of the reasons why they used aluminium. How does the weight of the full Halo rig compare (not a dig, just interested)?
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PerroneFord
Deals in Lead
Just a friendly piece of advice...
Keep as much off the Fig Rig as possible, or sign up for a gym membership.
Keep as much off the Fig Rig as possible, or sign up for a gym membership.
MadHMC150
DVXuser Sponsor
lol very true. But wouldn't adding more weight replace the gym membership
I just wanted to see if I'm forgetting anything as far as accessory mounting possibilities.
CameronMcC
Well-known member
you could always do the old bathroom scale trick. Weigh yourself and then immediately weigh yourself holding the Rig. Subtract the difference.
MadHMC150
DVXuser Sponsor
lol, did that and its around 2 lbs.... The scales accuracy is probably + - 2 lbs
But packed up and ready to ship they are under 3lbs...