H4N Preamps too quiet?

egproductions

egproductions

Veteran
like many, I use my H4N with a rhode videomic and while the H4N gives a very clean signal I find that there are times during narrative work that I can't even raise the levels enough to hover around -6db. I don't think it's a problem with the videomic since I used to use it with my Canon XL2 and never experienced this. For normal narrative dialogue I typically have to be around 80 (0-100) on the H4N. Does this sound like typical operation? Does it matter whether I'm connected through the 1/8th inch on the back or 1/4 or XLR on the bottom?
 
the preamp on h4n is indeed weak, I use a JuicedLink bwtween my H4n and NTG2, you could consider VideoMic Pro, it has built-in adjustble mic amp as far as I know.
 
For any narrative work you are supposed to have a preamp for the reason you just posted. What you really need is the Sound Devices MixPre-D. I'ts spendy, but it's a critical art of the audio chain. It has 60db of gain as wall as limiters on the input and output. The JuicedLink has a little clean gain, 16db, but no limiters, and no line out - only mic level output. The new MixPre-D has switchable mic/line level output.

My advice? Save up! I just noticed you are using a Rode VM.... Well, if you use the Rode VMP it comes with a 20db boos that will also help until you get some better gear. OR, since you are dealing with a 3.5mm cable coming out of the VM, there is the JuicedLink DT214 that will boost that for arounf 140.00 or so. I made a demo with it:
 
If using a mixpre-D am I going to get any benefits going into the h4n or should I be outputting straight into my 5DII? I know I won't be able to monitor the final audio and I will be tethered..but what about in terms of pur quality..whats better?

What about if I have levels that are in range for the h4n...will the mixpre-D make those levels even cleaner or would it just be used when I can't reach the levels needed in the h4n?
 
The MixPre-D has 60db of clean gain. If you record into the H4N using the Line level input, recording at 24bit 48k, you will have much cleaner audio than with the 5DMII. Much cleaner...
 
egproductions said:
If using a mixpre-D am I going to get any benefits going into the h4n or should I be outputting straight into my 5DII? I know I won't be able to monitor the final audio and I will be tethered..
Click to expand...

With MixPre-D, you are not going to lose anything: you can conveniently record into an audio recorder (H4n or not), the camera, and (if you want) a laptop - all at the same time. You are not going to be tethered either (unless you want that way): you can attach MixPre-D to the bottom of your camera via a tripod mount from SD, the same way you would attach a JuicedLink device.
 
In my opinion, MixPre-D is currently the best portable field preamp/mixer.

if you go for MM-1 or MP-2, not only will you lose the ability to connect to up to 4 audio sources (2 of them at only line level), but you are also going to lose the 2 very important features that I already mentioned:

1) mountable on tripod/camera,
2) simultaneous support for up to 6 different outputs: 2 XLR out, 1 USB, 1 stereo mic out, 1 tape out, and 1 headphone out.

Additionally you'll lose the fancy meter on MixPre-D.

If price is no big deal, MixPre-D will let you forever eliminate the need for a camera-mountable similar device from JuincedLink or Beach Tech. And it will allow you to downgrade (i.e., save money on) your fancy recorder like Zoom H4n, to just about any 24bit/96KHz or even 24/48 capable recorder such as Zoom H1, and you'll probably lose nothing important audio-wise.
 
+1

henryqiu said:
In my opinion, MixPre-D is currently the best portable field preamp/mixer.

if you go for MM-1 or MP-2, not only will you lose the ability to connect to up to 4 audio sources (2 of them at only line level), but you are also going to lose the 2 very important features that I already mentioned:

1) mountable on tripod/camera,
2) simultaneous support for up to 6 different outputs: 2 XLR out, 1 USB, 1 stereo mic out, 1 tape out, and 1 headphone out.

Additionally you'll lose the fancy meter on MixPre-D.

If price is no big deal, MixPre-D will let you forever eliminate the need for a camera-mountable similar device from JuincedLink or Beach Tech. And it will allow you to downgrade (i.e., save money on) your fancy recorder like Zoom H4n, to just about any 24bit/96KHz or even 24/48 capable recorder such as Zoom H1, and you'll probably lose nothing important audio-wise.
Click to expand...
 
Seems like there are some conflicting posts here and that might be due to my question not being clear enough:

I understand that the mixpre-D preamps are really clean, obviously that's where I want my starting point to be. Am I going to see any quality benefit from going from the mixpre into my h4n as compared to going from my mixpre to the 5DII?
 
Answer: YES

The H4N has better pres than the 5D, and you should be recording at 24 bit with the H4N, which will give you more headroom. the 5D only does 16bit. The H4N takes a"Line" input, while the 5D only takes "Mic" input. "Line" will give you less noise.
 
@ henryqiu and chadfish

the OP mentioned one mic but so the extra inputs on the mixpre are not going to be used. Obviously its a better piece of kit but if on a budget the MM1 and MP1 will serve the same purpose. Also they can be mounted to tripods (I do it all the time) with this
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/590758-REG/WindTech_MAH_5_MAH_5_Accessory_Holder_for.html
belt clip on the back of sound devices is strong and it holds very firm. Fast to release too. I prefer it to any bolt or screw on.
He's gonna have more trouble mounting the zoom H4n. The older zoom h4 had a 1/4 20
 
To egproductions. Audio to sound devices then to line level in on zoom h4n is going to be better. But what DSLR do you shoot?
You can feed a hot signal into a canon 60d that minimizes the use of the preamp and get decent audio. Was talking to Luis Cafrese who does this for his interview work. Well he stopped now he got the fs100
 
Chadfish said:
Answer: YES

The H4N has better pres than the 5D, and you should be recording at 24 bit with the H4N, which will give you more headroom. the 5D only does 16bit. The H4N takes a"Line" input, while the 5D only takes "Mic" input. "Line" will give you less noise.
Click to expand...

does H4n have line in? on the back I only see a 3.5mm mic input, on the side there is a line/headphone out
I'm currently using JL CX231 ouput mic level signal to H4n, should I switch to line output?
 
J Davis said:
H4n only has line in on the 3.5mm input, xlr is mic in only
H4 has line in on 3.5mm and xlr
Click to expand...

thanks for the clarification but I'm a bit confused, H4n has three types of input, 3.5mm (on the back), XLR and phone (on the bottom), I suppose 3.5mm has mic in and XLR/phone have line in?
 
It used to be that the phone (1/4") input was line level on my old H4. What is the line level input connection for the DR-100? Anyone?
 
marvinhello said:
thanks for the clarification but I'm a bit confused, H4n has three types of input, 3.5mm (on the back), XLR and phone (on the bottom), I suppose 3.5mm has mic in and XLR/phone have line in?
Click to expand...

3.5mm = stereo unbalanced mic level
XLR = mono balanced mic level
1/4 Phone (inside XLR) = unbalanced "instrument level" i.e. line level but non-standard, matched to guitar pickups, keyboards, etc
 
Steve House said:
3.5mm = stereo unbalanced mic level
XLR = mono balanced mic level
1/4 Phone (inside XLR) = unbalanced "instrument level" i.e. line level but non-standard, matched to guitar pickups, keyboards, etc
Click to expand...

understood! many thanks.
by the way I once paid a visit to Ontario, I think it's a place called Mississauga, it was a visit to IMAX headquarter.
 
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