H4N + NTG-3 + ..? What would you pick for narrative filmmaking?
- Thread starter Iudex
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Chadfish
Veteran
Yeah Jeff I'm saving for an R-44 with a mixed Oade Bros Mod. Super mod for ch 1&2 for dialogue and nature, and Concert mod for ch 3&4 for music. It's only like 50 bucks more than the stock R-44 so I'm going for it. I just sole my Zoom H4 for 150.00 and that's the start of my R-44 fund.
Hey you're from Redding! I do spots for ABC here in Eureka, and KRCR in Redding plays them sometimes, and they pay me too since they are the cooperate for the Eureka station.
Hey you're from Redding! I do spots for ABC here in Eureka, and KRCR in Redding plays them sometimes, and they pay me too since they are the cooperate for the Eureka station.
twocik23
Veteran
"AT4053B"
Wow that does sound pretty good and the price is very affordable ! I'm not an audio guy at all, I know just enough to get by, but mostly hire out. I own one octava kit mic and use it for simple things. I'm looking into one of these H4n recorders, but not sure if there's something better for a little more (still reading).
One thing that's always stumped me with audio is how the pros get it to sound so full, deep, perfect, etc.., I guess it's like how us DP/Editors CC either in cam or in post making it look so good. I love full sounding audio, if I could I'd stick the mic down the actors/actress throat....
I've read a lot of people love this H4N, and seems like the audio heads don't. Audio is such a important part to any video/film, it definitely makes or breaks your piece.
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Wow that does sound pretty good and the price is very affordable ! I'm not an audio guy at all, I know just enough to get by, but mostly hire out. I own one octava kit mic and use it for simple things. I'm looking into one of these H4n recorders, but not sure if there's something better for a little more (still reading).
One thing that's always stumped me with audio is how the pros get it to sound so full, deep, perfect, etc.., I guess it's like how us DP/Editors CC either in cam or in post making it look so good. I love full sounding audio, if I could I'd stick the mic down the actors/actress throat....
I've read a lot of people love this H4N, and seems like the audio heads don't. Audio is such a important part to any video/film, it definitely makes or breaks your piece.
.
thisisapocalypse
Well-known member
We're using an NT3 for interiors and an NTG-3 for exteriors on our feature, I really like the sound of the NT3 - it is a tad brighter than the NTG-3 but it still sounds very nice, especially for the price and what you can get one for used - is it perfect? No, but it's a great mic for the money and used you can find them for about $150 and I think it compares very favorably with more expensive mics...it's real downside is its weight, but its sound quality is very very good I think in part due to the larger diaphragm - I really like it for dialogue and you can tweak it a bit in post to get close to matching the NTG-3...again, not a perfect solution but still a very good mic and if you use it right you should be able to get good results, certainly better than using an NTG-3 indoors.
I will second getting a different recorder for the feature. I originally bought a Zoom H4n and still have it as a backup, but I switched to a Fostex FR2LE for our main recorder - if our budget was bigger we'd go for that Edirol, but the Fostex is pretty close in terms of sound quality, is very solid and much, much better than the H4n - much fuller sounding in my opinion - you can get a pre-owned FR2LE for not much more than the Zoom and it's a huge upgrade in terms of sound quality and easier to use on set since it's not all menu driven, and the pre-amps are actually quite good even stock and quite low-noise. I didn't find the Zoom especially noisy, but I think it sounds thin and lacks presence for dialogue.
We've gotten very clean good audio with this setup - definitely get the Rode blimp setup if you don't already have it, the NT3 works great in it as well as the NTG-3.
Bad sound will kill your film - I'm primarily an image guy too but we still split the budget evenly across video and sound gear, and even though I like buying lenses more than mics, more money on sound probably pays off more than more money on lenses, assuming you've got a good quality set to begin with.
We're shooting on the GH13 - since you're getting into pre-production feel free to e-mail me as I've been in production on a feature film for a few months now on a DSLR setup and a similar audio setup and I can impart anything we've learned so far to you if you have questions.
I will second getting a different recorder for the feature. I originally bought a Zoom H4n and still have it as a backup, but I switched to a Fostex FR2LE for our main recorder - if our budget was bigger we'd go for that Edirol, but the Fostex is pretty close in terms of sound quality, is very solid and much, much better than the H4n - much fuller sounding in my opinion - you can get a pre-owned FR2LE for not much more than the Zoom and it's a huge upgrade in terms of sound quality and easier to use on set since it's not all menu driven, and the pre-amps are actually quite good even stock and quite low-noise. I didn't find the Zoom especially noisy, but I think it sounds thin and lacks presence for dialogue.
We've gotten very clean good audio with this setup - definitely get the Rode blimp setup if you don't already have it, the NT3 works great in it as well as the NTG-3.
Bad sound will kill your film - I'm primarily an image guy too but we still split the budget evenly across video and sound gear, and even though I like buying lenses more than mics, more money on sound probably pays off more than more money on lenses, assuming you've got a good quality set to begin with.
We're shooting on the GH13 - since you're getting into pre-production feel free to e-mail me as I've been in production on a feature film for a few months now on a DSLR setup and a similar audio setup and I can impart anything we've learned so far to you if you have questions.
thisisapocalypse
Well-known member
I think the FR2LE is the most bang for the buck right now - I don't doubt the $1000+ units sound a bit better, but since you can get an FR2LE for around $300-350 used, it's a very nice deal and a really nice unit to work with - it's pretty no nonsense, solid and reliable, for location sound it's night and day better than the H4N.
The more expensive units are totally worth it - but a balance of good gear is important - you don't want to blow all the money on the recorder and then not have good microphone options.
unclebob6958
Well-known member
They start with capturing quality sound in the first place - a professional boom-op choosing the correct mic for the situation who then has the talent, technique and experience to keep it properly aimed during the entire scene; and a production sound mixer who properly gain-stages the mic/mixer/recorder, "rides the fader" and gets terrific levels with a very low noise floor. Needless to say, these guys use a mic that costs more than most indie types spend on their entire sound kit.
Then the audio post team - editors and mixers - uses their talent, technique and experience to bring out the nuances by using their very high end noise reduction, EQ and dynamic processing.
Now I'm not saying that the expensive gear is what makes it sound great, it's the people - talent, technique and experience. One of those folks can take low end gear and make it sound good. A moron with the best gear in the world will still put out crap.
Chadfish
Veteran
I think in some cases people pick a bright mic because it initially sounds more intelligible at first listen. Often people hear my NT3 vs AT4053b comparison, and say they like the NT3 better because it's brighter. But the AT4053b is picking up all the full body of the human voice, and you can't put that back with EQ in post. But you can bring up the high end a little to add a little more intelligibility. I think the AT4053b is a meaty sounding mic that really sounds good in post. It's good on men and women IMO. Of course placement is very important too. But if you hobble your sound before it gets to the mixer with a cheap mic you have not captured the whole voice. That's why I say don't let 300.00 or 500.00 or even 1,000.00 savings screw you out of good recordings at the first link in the audio chain. If you are making a whole movie, why bottle neck the entire sound of the movie through a 250.00 mic? A mic is as important as any camera.
I understand that people only have as much money as they have. I'm just saying to try to avoid looking for the cheapest possible mic. I have never missed the extra money I spent getting what I really wanted.
johnnyevil
Active member
I purchased an AT4053b based on recommendations from Chad, and I must say, I love the way it sounds. Clear and full. I've only used it on men so far, but I am happy with the purchase. I'm using it through a MixPre into a Sony PCM-M10.
Chadfish
Veteran
Hey Jonny ! Glad to hear you are digging the AT4053b! I think it's good on femae voices too, because it doesn't have hyped highs. When you combine a bright mic with a high or thin sounding female voice you risk getting a shrill sounding recording. The AT4053b will make a female voice sound full IMO. I see by your signature you have all things I use as well, except I use a Sony D-50 rather than an M10. All great gear IMO. I was about to get the M10, but I didn't want omni mics built in. I prefer cardioid. Still plugged in signal sounds great with that unit, as I suspect it's the same pres as the D-50. Rock on man!