h4n and rode

Lake Films

Lake Films

Veteran
Hey guys...I'm stumped with my rode ntg-2, when I use it with my h4n, the audio is so low coming in but when I use my sennheiser me66 the audio is so much louder. Any ideas why this would be, the rode is brand new?
 
It's a known issue, the preamps in the H4n aren't quite strong enough to get a good level out of the RØDE NTG-2. There are a few threads around about it.
 
yup, same exact problem. just a bad combination. get a mixer or something to boost the signal on the ntg-2 and it'll help a lot.
 
Finally an answer, thank you guys! But, now I need a suggestion on a 'pre-amp or mixer' because it is a shame I cannot use this great mic.
 
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despite the low incoming signal, i still manage to get fantastic audio from my ntg-2/h4n combo. if you're not, i suggest you re-evaluate your microphone placement technique before throwing more money at the problem.

that said, the pre-amp/mixer decision is one only you can make. the pre-amp will work better with your rode and get your current set-up to work better. a mixer, however, will come in far more handy when you decide to become a little more professional with your productions and tackle tougher productions.

me? I decided to go with neither. As I said, it's a little annoying but the combo is plenty good for now, and I can rent when I need it.
 
The mic placement was directly overhead. So, I think I will get one of those pieces of equipment. Judging from your post, the mixer would serve me better for the future as well as the present. That being said, any suggestions for one?
 
You need the Sound Devices MixPre-D. 65db of gain I believe. A preamp is an indispensable tool all audio people should have - especially for dialogue on indi films. Pricey, yes, but you only need to buy it once, then you'll have a career of good audio even when you change mics or recorders.
 
Yes it's initially pricey, but imagine how much time you'll save removing hiss from under powered recordings! Really 800.00 is not much in the larger gear picture. Or you can get a juiced link for 400.00(ish) that gives you 16db of clean gain, though no limiters, but will plug into a mic level device like a DSLR. The MixPre d can also go straight into a DSLR, delivering the best audio the DSLR can possibly get. That's worth a lot IMO for jobs where DSLR audio is "good enough". I have no pony in this race. I just encourage you to study the MixPre, recognize it's value, and save up for one. It will make your future productions go much more smoothly, and that's worth a lot of money. Yes maybe down the road you'll want more channels in a mixer, but for 2 channels, the MixPre is really a fine tool. I've never regretted holding out for the good stuff. But I have been doomed to relive bad gear choices over and over until I finally got the good stuff. It's cheaper to just got the good stuff right out of the gate.

Regards!

Chad
 
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Yes, I have the mixpreD, an NTG2 (and an AT4053b) and an H4n. This mixpreD works beautifully just as a preamp into the H4n. I go XLR to XLR despite some suggestions people have going into the mini inputs. I have not encountered any issues or problems. MixpreD mounted to a DSLR works incredibly. I prefer it to the juicedlink because the juicedlink has a higher floor.

However, a word is that the mixpreD cannot defeat AGC, so unless you have magiclantern, you'll need to plug in an mp3 player with a looping 10minute or so 19khz hiss (effectively what the juicedlink does built-in). Don't forget to buy the blue cable, and the threadlock mount, which are not included.
 
Lake Films said:
Chad...you are 100% right. So, the micpre can work with the h4n nicely?
Click to expand...

Absolutely! And about any other recorder too - even more noisy ones. That's because all that gain the MixPre gives you allows you to turn down the recording level of whatever recorder you use. Less record volume = less noise. On top of that the MixPre has optical limiters on the input and output, and it generates a tone you can calibrate to any recorder with. So once you are calibrated you are virtually clip proof. Nice for when an actor decides to yell a line.
 
I'm not often online, but I just happened to see this discussion ...

Here is a plot which shows about 8dB Signal-to-Noise improvement by using a juicedLink CX211/CX231 low-noise preamp in combination with a Rode NTG2 and Zoom H4n:

Plot_res1 (1).jpg

You can read the entire analysis, and listen to recorded audio clips, at the full blog post.


Best regards,

Robert
 
Lake Films said:
Hey guys...I'm stumped with my rode ntg-2, when I use it with my h4n, the audio is so low coming in but when I use my sennheiser me66 the audio is so much louder. Any ideas why this would be, the rode is brand new?
Click to expand...

I just posted in another thread an output compariosn between the Rode NTG-2 and a Senn ME66. At 1PA SPL (~94dBSPL) , the Rode outputs only 15 millivolts while the ME-66 outputs 50 millivolts. That's a HUGE difference in levels and explains your observations.
 
Yeah the ME66 is more sensitive than the NTG-2, however the NTG-2 sounds much better. So you just need a preamp boost. The NTG-2's sensitivity is (I believe) -36db. The NTG-3 is -30db, which, at 6db louder you are effectively doubling the output. If you are on a budget, the JuicedLink DT-454 provides 16db of clean gain, and will most likely boost you enough with some left over. The DT-454 outputs to a 1/8" mini jack at mic level - which is what you need for DSLR cameras. If you have a "line Level" input on your camera you need a preamp that delivers a line level signal.
 
Chad: I have a Rode NG-2, a JuicedLink and a H4N. Seems like a bit of overkill to use all three, but I tried it for giggles not long ago. The results weren't that great, but I never really went and did a comprehensive evaluation. I have the JL with the 1/8 out only and so I connected that to the external mic jack. Not so great. However, when I used the Rode NG-2 with the JL and connected it to my camera, it worked fine (except for that stupid time the gain setting got turned up so much that only my temper afterward was hotter than the sound).

One thing I am curious about though is how well the Cloudlifter would work with the Rode NG-2. I've heard so many good things about that product but have never tried it. Have you tested it?
 
Well, the JuicedLink is a mic level device that adds 16db of clean gain to your signal. Were you recording with the H4N at mic level? If it was line level, you would have too little signal for sure. Is the 1/8" input on the H4N only line in, or can it be mic in too? Better check that. Anyway, the 16db of gain provided by the JL should be plenty to bring the NTG-2 up to the sensitivity of most mics. The NTG-3 is only 6db more sensitive (that's effectively 2 times louder). So, depending on the input of your H4N, you may be using the wrong tool. You could by an adapter such as a 1/8" female stereo - to - 2 XLR males. That would get you into the H4N's XLR inputs at mic level. I'm not sure you need the Cloudfilter. You wouldn't have any control. You'd just be 25db louder, and would probably clip the input of whatever you use to record with.

Look into the questions I asked and see what you can do. I don't own an H4N, so I can't tell what's up.
 
Chad, i have the old mixpre, could you please take me through the caliberating process. My configuration is NTG-2-->Mixpre--->H4N, i have looped the headphone output of the H4N back to the mixpre for monitering. I just don't know what to do with the slate signal, do i adjust it on the mixpre or H4N volume? Another off the topic question would know if the described combination would give a better sound quality than the Edirol R-4 when used in an interview?
 
To calibrate you just switch on the tone generator on the MixPre (opposite switch direction than Slate). Then set the record level on your H4n (reading the tone signal) to -20db. (I may be mistaken, it could be -24db) You should be good to go then. Of course you should be recording on the H4N at "Line" level, not "Mic" level. I think the R-4 would probably have better pres, but working at line level with a MixPre, the noise level should be quite low on either. The R-4 can record individual mono tracks, so I would use that if I had the choice. The R-4 ain't that big really! More bag-friendly too with the button layout. I think on the R-4, the outer trim knob is at line level when turned counter clockwise all the way. I'm working from memory here, so test out your setup before the gig.
 
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