Gyro Stabilization on a Car... What am I getting into?

cousinavi7

cousinavi7

Well-known member
Hey guys,

I've got a commercial shoot coming up and the director/producer want to use a gyro stabilizer on a car. We'll be in the desert filming mountain bikers in motion from a van/truck.

We're thinking of using one like this LSG-2


http://www.aerialexposures.com/gyroplatform.htm

Thing is there will be no operator for the gyro. Has anyone used these before? Are they as easy to use as the salesmen tell me ? Hahaha

Anyone have a better idea for achieving super smooth and steady shots from a moving vehicle on dirt/sand roads?

any ideas or links to other products would be much appreciated!!!
 
what do you mean ,no operator? these will take the weight and it will still be up to the camera guy to hold and pan /shoot.
 
Just hire a good key grip or something. You'll never get the results just doing it yourself.

You can also just try calling up a local rental house...They would probably be happy providing you with the right gear and a good guy to go along with it.
 
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The production doesn't want to hire a keygrip/camera assitant. They want me to run the camera and handle all of the gyro equipment. I'm guessing waaaaaaaaayyyyyy to much for 1 guy???
 
the footage on my site is a shoulder mount hpx170 with the kenlab ks8 gyro . hanging out the side of a helicopter chasing a seaplane. www.hdimages.ca look in movies /gyro demo.
 
It's not way too much for one guy, but to me it sounds like way too much with someone who hasn't done it before.

I still think you should check out local rental houses. You could always try and find a time when they aren't too busy and see if there's anything they'll give you a demo on. You'll give them some business, and you'll get trained by someone who knows what they're doing.
 
cousinavi7 said:
Hey guys,

I've got a commercial shoot coming up and the director/producer want to use a gyro stabilizer on a car. We'll be in the desert filming mountain bikers in motion from a van/truck.
Click to expand...

It depends a little bit on what you're looking to achieve. I've found Gyro's don't really stablize the shot as such, but they do make any camera moves a bit more fluid and smooth. Any large bumps will still be there. And because of the gyro forces at play, they aren't super reactive either. So if the idea is to do faster whip pans or moves then you'll struggle to overcome the initial inertia of the gyros to get the camera panning.

Gyros take out the *high frequency* vibrations at best, but not the bumps you'd get from a rough road.

What you're really looking for if you can afford it is something like a libra head

jb
 
Great Info guys! Its true I've never used a gyro or a libra head which leads me to believe it might be too much.

jetaddiction it looks like you've used/have gyros before. Are they simple to set up and use? I'm envisioning my 1st shoot with a steadicam. SEEMS easy enough, but when you get the damn thing you realize its a true art form to be able to use effectively. They deliver wonderful shots, but you must have some practice time with them to master it (which I wont have with a gyro...)

Any thoughts on using it for the 1st time? I really have no idea how to even set it up etc..

John, great thought on the libra head! Are they available for rent? Can they be mounted upright inside a van, back of truck etc.. without having a jib/crane? Really we'd just want the smooth panning motion and will probably be using an HVX or 7D (so small rig). Do you find Libra heads pretty easy to figure out?

Thanks for the info guys!!
 
cousinavi7 said:
John, great thought on the libra head! Are they available for rent? Can they be mounted upright inside a van, back of truck etc.. without having a jib/crane? Really we'd just want the smooth panning motion and will probably be using an HVX or 7D (so small rig). Do you find Libra heads pretty easy to figure out?

Thanks for the info guys!!
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Libra heads are awesome but they are very expensive to rent. And it's not just the head, you need someone who knows how to rig it. And the pan and tilt remote is via wheels, which if you've never used before, aren't easy for a beginner. Yes you can rig just the head onto almost anything.

Judging by your camera platform, the cost is high so let's put that aside.

Depending on how rough the road is, have you thought of hard-mounting a steadicam to a quad bike ?

It's not probably a super cheap option, but certainly is cheaper than a libra and grip.

Another low cost option is a vibration isolator. These can take out some of the course movements, but generally only side to side movements and still allow a head to be mounted to it. So you could mount this to a high hat and then add a head on top.

Beware though. IN my part of the world, just jumping into the back of a van with the rear door open would be illegal without full control of the road. Even then, it' very dangerous to drive a van with it's rear door open, mainly because it can create a sort of vacum that sucks exhaust fumes back into the cabin. Potentially lethal.

jb
 
John,

VALUABLE info!! I'll discuss these options with the director. What about mounting the car with Sticky Pods to avoid the open van door toxic fume problem...

www.stickypod.com

Adding the Vibration Isolator for more stability, and add a fluid head? They also pointed me to stabilization software called

New Blue Fx to aid in the shaky footage?
 
cousinavi7 said:
John,

VALUABLE info!! I'll discuss these options with the director. What about mounting the car with Sticky Pods to avoid the open van door toxic fume problem...

www.stickypod.com

Adding the Vibration Isolator for more stability, and add a fluid head? They also pointed me to stabilization software called

New Blue Fx to aid in the shaky footage?
Click to expand...


I've not heard of stiky pods but have used similar before. I must say, looking at their setup in particular, the individual poles seem very long and narrow for this type of rig and the lock offs seem inadequate. I guess for light weight cameras that are acceptable. This would concern me because the longer they are, the more likely they are to be prone to vibration and backlash as the car is in motion. The closer the camera is to the car body and the shorter the poles, the less chance of *flex* in the rig itself. I've often used ratchet staps onto the camera itself to further lock the camera body to the car.

A vibration isolator is not light at all, and this wouldn't work in a rig situation with stickypods as they are designed to be *operated* rather than just used for a lock off.

Post stabilisation has come a long way, but they all involve a hit in terms of image resolution and will reduce the frame size, depending on how much stabalisation is required. They also won't work if you're trying to operate or pan a shot. The software can't tell the difference between your deliberate camera move or pan and the vibrations of the road and setup.

jb
 
Sounds good John. Theres a local rental house we are going to check out and shoot some test footage. I'll let you know what we find!

No prob jet addiction..
 
Another option is to use a steadicam back of a vehicle. A steadicam will take away all high frequency vibrations as well as any bumps in the road while not limiting any movement, pan, tilt, horizon or fast action.

You would need to hire an experienced operator as it would not be possible nor safe for you to do it yourself.

You can probably check out:

www.steadicam-ops.com

and find a op near you.

Hope this helps.
 

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interesting idea emretufekci. Luckily we've ruled out driving on dirt/bumpy roads. Theres a long straight-away in the location we want that is quite flat and smooth. We're thinking of renting a minivan because the suspension is so smooth and has 2 side doors to shoot from.

We're shooting a mtn biker riding from our moving car. Any ideas on lighting him a bit? I was thinking HMI with a small gene to power it? Might throw some light on him (during daylight) to help him pop out from the background a bit? Any ideas? We threw around the idea of a keno-flow but I don't think it would throw enough light. Plus it would be a sail in the wind! We'll be shooting golden hours primarily (I know, I know, yeesh!)
 
cousinavi7 said:
We're thinking of renting a minivan because the suspension is so smooth and has 2 side doors to shoot from.
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Hi Again.

Make sure you can really LOCK the side doors off. If you have to break suddenly then you can be in serious trouble if those doors close.

I always put a clamp in on the slide anyway, just in case.


cousinavi7 said:
I was thinking HMI with a small gene to power it? Might throw some light on him (during daylight) to help him pop out from the background a bit? Any ideas? W We'll be shooting golden hours primarily (I know, I know, yeesh!)
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Genni in the back of a van is a bad idea. You'll be breathing potentially lethal exhaust fumes.

If you're shooting at magic hour then just choose the best angle for camera and let the sun (or sky reflecting sun) do all the work. Don't bother with a HMI. Or if you must, get a 200w 30V version that can run off batteries, or get an inverter to run off your cig plug in the car. At that time of day, you won't need much.

Opinions differ, but magic hour to me is more like magic 20 mins. It depends too on where you are geographically in the world and which season you're in. The closer to the equator you are, the shorter it will be. And in theory, it's the time just AFTER the sun has gone down and instead refracts through the atmosphere to give that everywhere glow.

That also means you have to be super organised and you won't get a lot of setups done before you loose your light. And the light will change in terms of it's look almost every minute.

You can get lots of apps for the iPhone that will help you judge the sun position and sunset times. Look up Helios (expensive) or sun seeker (cheaper).

Dont forget that the colour of the van may also reflect into your subject (and sunglasses), depending on where you shoot from. You might like this for a bit of bounce if it's white or you might prefer it to be negative and make it black for better modelling...

Good Luck

jb

**EDIT.

One final thought. Have a look at a polecam. See if there's an operator near you.
 
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Hey guys,

well we wrapped yesterday. The we used a combination of a 10' and 5' jib off the back of a truck and also handheld off the tailgate. For what we needed it worked great. This project had very fast cuts so long takes with ultra stable frames wasn't needed. I learned a lot in the process and had a blast! Thanks for the tips and ideas!

If i had it to do over again I think I'd go with a steadycam hardmounted somehow to the tailgate/bumper. But live and learn!


cheers
 
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