Gunshots

T

Tom Koerner

New member
I'm doing post on a 30 minute short film with a number of special effects. Right now we're looking into whether i want to rely on After Effects to add the Rifle Shots. The alternative is shooting blanks or starter shots.

1) How realistic will I be able to make the AE'ed shots look. I'm willing to go all out and blue screen some hot rounds at a range to get the smoke angles and blast but that will eat large amounts of time...

2) Anyone know how close to life blanks look?

3) WOUNDS - we are not squib certified however; we have built a few improvised effects of our own. Anyone have tips on recreating excellent shotgun or rifle wounds?

If we used blanks we would still have live rounds on set as props - this makes me nervous because I am jittery even when I'm running a cold range with people who know what they're doing. TCOM majors do not know what they are doing. If it came to that I would log and number each bullet but still - that's asking for accidental death. Anyone have other suggestions?
 
Blanks would be most preferable though they may cause problems for you depending on where you wish to shoot. You get a realistic "kick" motion from the gun that is otherwise hard to fake unless your actors have been shooting for a while.

You can certainly do the effect in AE. How well it turns out really depends on your capabilities with the software. I've seen excellent and bad stuff come out of AE. This is certainly the safest and easiest method IMO. It can look quite good if you know what you are doing.
 
Avoid blanks or squibs unless you actually have someone who is certified.
After efefcts and editing should be able to tell the story.
 
Here's a great link I found that we will be using for our movie as well. I have not tried this, but it seems safe, easy, and very realistic. Hope it helps!

Link for gunshot
 
we used some effects from alamdv and some gun flare effects that we found on line. We bought the cd and used the ones we needed. They look pretty good. What you should know is that a gunshot (flare) is usually added in post. On films, if the camera operator saw the flash, the camera didn't. Generally the flash is only there for one frame. Don't use squibs unless you have a licensed effects person there.
BTW the link for the gunshot is a good one. Very creative. I have done stunts for over 20 years and these are as good as anything in Hollywood!
 
instead of squibs you can use medical tubing and canned air. fill the tube with blood and such and discharge some canned air to blow it out....


:)
 
..and by all means DO NOT make the muzzle flashes showing up super bright in broad daylight.. that just doesnt happen. it is very very faint during the day.. and pretty bright at night.
 
That link is astounding! Thanks! They are shooting blanks for the kick of the gun, I will probably add the flashes in post as necessary. They're using the tubing / sponge plug method for the wounds and also a little low budget wirework (aka whiplash budget) for the impact. Fun stuff.
 
10s, that was pretty disturbing. I'm totally freaked and I might possibly have nightmares tonight. Let this be a lesson folks, guns are not toys and if not used under the supervision of a professional, you can be accidentally shot and possibly killed. I'd play it safe and rather digitally composite the effects.
 
The muzzle flash you use should also depend on what type of gun it is. An AR-15/M-16 type weapon throws a pretty large muzzle flash, especially at night. I think it's cheasy when people add bullet traces to the rounds, unless what you're going for is that the rounds are tracers. They did that way to much in the movie "the transporter". Thats a really good idea for squibs btw. Make sure and call the local police and tell them you're going to be using blanks so they don't think its a gang shootout. On a shoot I helped out with this summer, we actually used paintballs filled with dirt to simulate gunshots hitting the ground/walls. I'm not sure where they found them though....They were hollow, so you could put whatever you wanted inside them then just snap the two sides together. They actually worked pretty good....
 
what about those non-guns? they shoot flash out of the barrel but you have to rent em and you have to be SOMEBODY big. Like famous...i think
 
I added flashes using After FX to a short a few friends of mine up in Canada made.

http://saber-x.com/TTYSFlashComp4.mov

No sound, that was just a quick color composition test and I don't have the final version handy.

Also sorry for the crappy compression. :(

Edit: For the record, I did matte the black borders so the flash didn't go into them for the final render. :P
 
..looks good virum, just be sure that if you adding fx that you re-add the black bars to the vid on the top layer. your muzzle flash comes right out ofthe letterbox at one point.

..on a side note. most muzzle flashes are barely visible during the day.
 
iamloser said:
..looks good virum, just be sure that if you adding fx that you re-add the black bars to the vid on the top layer. your muzzle flash comes right out ofthe letterbox at one point.

..on a side note. most muzzle flashes are barely visible during the day.
Click to expand...

Yeah, like I said in the edit of that post, for the final version I did do that. :)

Thanks, I'm pretty happy with them myself although they could use some smoking effect as well.

In case anyone cares, I made the flash in Maya using the particle system.
 
Just a few points...

I shot a project a few years back with blank guns. The blanks did three things:
Illuminated the shooter for 1 frame (if you deinterlace incorrectly with a non-progressive camera, you will remove the change in illumination)
Displayed the flash for one frame, with the same issue as above.
There was no significant recoil, as there is nothing for the blank to push againt (no bullet)
The expended shell was visible, but only as "something moving through the air for a few frames that are probably the shell". No big deal, and I don't think anyone would notice the lack of the shell. They move pretty fast.

Therefore, a recoiling gas paintball gun may be a better choice, combined with flashing the frame that the muzzle flash is pasted into. You can also paste in a shell arcing through the air with the level of detail you want. You have much better control than the real deal, and it's safer.

Virum's movie works really well to demonstrate just how low-contrast rifle shots in daylight can be. Handguns are even lower contrast.

And, to be really detailed, a muzzle flash from a blank does not look like a muzzle flash from a live cartridge. A bullet causes resistance, which creates a blast that is more mushroom shaped than leaf shaped. This is where pasting in a frame from found footage can be beneficial.

Gunshot wound...this was a contact wound. The star-shaped splitting is caused by the muzzle gases being forced into the wound. Bullet wounds from a distance are generally as clean as if it had been punched out with a sharpened tube. Extension of the area being hit can affect the shape, such as make it more elongated, but it is still clean.

I worked with a paramedic on trauma simulations for the local hospitals for a couple years, so we had access to the real thing...took a long time to get past that sick feeling from seeing a dead human being.
 
Virum's movie works really well to demonstrate just how low-contrast rifle shots in daylight can be. Handguns are even lower contrast.
Click to expand...

Why thank you sir. *blush*

I spent a lot of time trying to get the color right, they had originally been to orange and looked super fake; if anyone is interested in seeing the first two tests I thinK I can dig them up. :)
 
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