God and Bananas

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hmmph... aaarrgh... there is so little logic in the world... so so little.

I did sound for a place called Fixed Point, between Christopher Hitchens and Dinesh D'Souza... at the STL Powell Hall... as is often the case for me, I had no idea what the gig was until THAT NIGHT... so anyway... I was so excited to hear an intelligent debate between what are supposed to be some of our top minds ON BOTH SIDES... but man, my heart was broken when BOTH parties were so incredibly bad at debating from a logic standpoint.

I can take either side of that issue and debate it pretty well... it's too bad there are so many pseudo-intellectuals that have gone bananas (on both sides).
 
Why not look towards real Scholars such as Professor William Craig Lane. (not aimed at you Matt, I share you sentiments, things have dumb downed recently)

If one needed a heart operation you would not go down the local butcher, you would contact a real surgeon..
 
Ray was being funny and you could tell by Kirk's reaction. This was one of their skirts and they even said as much that. It's obviously not hard science, but there are those of us who believe there are things in creation that testify to the majesty of a higher power. I won't go further than that as not to step on the board's rules but, yea, that's all it is and we have a sense of humor too. It's not so funny I guess if you don't understand the humor.

-Nate
 
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Anhar Miah said:
Why not look towards real Scholars such as Professor William Craig Lane. (not aimed at you Matt, I share you sentiments, things have dumb downed recently)

If one needed a heart operation you would not go down the local butcher, you would contact a real surgeon..
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Just so you know, if you put "dinesh d'souza" in quotes (to limit the returns to the fewest) and google it... just like that... you get 289,000 results... "william craig lane" gets 376. I'm just saying... those guys weren't exactly "nobody" :) They are highly regarded.

I SERIOUSLY appreciate the information Anhar... and I'll read up on Lane. I really want some good, logical ideas on this issue.

I wasn't saying that these guys ARE high-ranking debaters on the subject... but that they are perceived to be... this thing at Powell Hall was a really big deal... you can google that as well with "d'souza hitchens" and you'll see that this "debate" was a supposed to be a traveling "forum?"... "show?" (I don't know what to call it)... and all I was saying is that I found it dramatically disappointing from an intellectual viewpoint... from BOTH sides. I enjoyed it emotionally... but the crowd was roused with emotional points and the whole place (including the crew I shared the gig with) seemed clueless that either party so effectively side-stepped LOGIC.

After the show... I wanted to speak to each of them for about 2 minutes... just to give EACH of them some solid logic for a platform next time.
 
MattinSTL said:
I really want some good, logical ideas on this issue.
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My brother David (bright kid, graduated 2nd in his class at WVU Law School) and I have done exactly what you are wanting to hear Matt. And the kick is, we have little "contests" of the like where the goal is to make the most convincing argument which is contrary to your belief system. And, we often have discussions where both of us debate both sides. It is interesting when one person is an athiest and kicks the other's ass while debating FOR the existance of God, especially when the other's argument is a solid one.
 
you know the funny thing about debates...


"There are those who debate for the sake of debating, they hold onto there side regardless and will stop at nothing because for them winning the argument is all that matters,

then there are those that who seek truth by being humble, for them its the argument that counts and not the winning"

Anhar
 
The pair of bananas in that video demonstrate that if they were created by a deity, he aimed very low and settled for very little.

Although it *does* nicely illustrate the general intellectual quality of creationist types.
 
Anhar Miah said:
well thats a fair point,

But Newton's creationalism was based upon a genuine belief and not based upon force.
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Newton also spent an inordinate amount of time involved in alchemy, trying to turn lead into gold. Just because someone is brilliant at one thing doesn't mean they are right about everything else.
 
Anhar Miah said:
well thats a fair point,

But Newton's creationalism was based upon a genuine belief and not based upon force.
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Yes Anhar, but Newton layed down only basic laws of physics, not biology. Albert Einstein was a firm believer in God, which adversly affected what would have been his most encompassing theory.
 
I often wonder if the most intellectual minds of our time think we're closer to the dawn of discovery... or the twilight of understanding. This applies to either side. Doing simple universal math (time)... I think it's safe to say we're incredibly new to the scene... even if you think we came from selacamps we're still brand new.

I've typed and deleted several paragraphs to explain what that means LOGICALLY... but I think it's better to not spell it out... it's intended to be a neutral idea to inspire thought.
 
MattinSTL said:
I often wonder if the most intellectual minds of our time think we're closer to the dawn of discovery... or the twilight of understanding. This applies to either side. Doing simple universal math (time)... I think it's safe to say we're incredibly new to the scene... even if you think we came from selacamps we're still brand new.

I've typed and deleted several paragraphs to explain what that means LOGICALLY... but I think it's better to not spell it out... it's intended to be a neutral idea to inspire thought.
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Just google technological singularity and you'll find reams of info that confirms that thought. Things are progressing so quickly with computers it's becoming clear we're just in the early stages of a radical shift. Just think of the the things you can do with your computer now that you couldn't do ten, fifteen years ago.
 
To think that one of Como's threads has inspired me to contemplate things so much...

With that said, I hope, for the sake of my contemplation, that this thread doesn't get shut down.


Also thanks, Anhar, for that recommendation of Craig. I think his writing is thought-provoking regardless of one's person beliefs.
 
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