Getting that "scenic forest" look, like The New World", tips, insights?

MatthewC

MatthewC

Well-known member
Getting that "scenic forest" look, like The New World", tips, insights?

I've got my directorial debut short film (first time I'm putting money into anything). It's about two hunters who go into the woods in the off-season for a final hunting trip together.

I'm going for the Roger Deakins look. Every frame (or as many as possible) should have the beautiful photographic/painting look. The New World and No Country for Old Men are both very inspiring. We're shooting on the HPX-170 and the Letus Extreme with 28mm, 50mm, 85m, and 120mm lenses.

I love the look of the wide lense, but I think shooting wide shots with longer lenses will give me a bit more of a painting look. Most of the painting shots are in the travelling montages between scenes. I've got ideas of what I want for those. Close ups of feet stepping on branches, frame-in-frames with vegetation in foreground, racking focus from beautiful moss to BG actors on a long lense, etc. These shots don't have to continue into the next, but act more as set pieces showcasing the forest. But most of this is happening on the day, as I find the shots and try to set them up. Yet somehow I feel limited, maybe it's because I can't plan a shot-by-shot for these scenic ones and have to make them on the day that it stresses me I'm not gonna get all the scenic portraits I need. I'm just looking for ideas/hints/inspiration on getting unique/different shots. I'm hoping for some reflections in the water on the day as a leaf lands and makes a ripple type stuff, etc. but any resources/books that will help bring the "photographers" eye out would be great. I honestly love the challenge of finding beautiful things on the day, but I feel like I may end up doing too many pans up/on/off vegetation and rack focuses that I might start to repeat myself. Any takers?

Cheers.
 
MatthewC said:
I'm going for the Roger Deakins look. Every frame (or as many as possible) should have the beautiful photographic/painting look. The New World and No Country for Old Men are both very inspiring. We're shooting on the HPX-170 and the Letus Extreme with 28mm, 50mm, 85m, and 120mm lenses.

I love the look of the wide lense, but I think shooting wide shots with longer lenses will give me a bit more of a painting look.
Click to expand...

The long lens will 'flatten' the image field. The problem that I'd have is if you change to a short lens for closeups it may result in some sort of jarring disjunction.

If the field of view for the Letus adapter result is the same as a real(tm) 35mm FoV, then 120mm isn't all that long a lens. The Wife tended to use her 105mm as a portrait lens almost always...
 
Composition. must be perfect. case in point: New World, No Country for Old Men.
 
If you think the only way to get a painterly look is to use long lenses, then perhaps you're thinking too much and not shooting enough.

valley1024x512.jpg
 
craigbowman said:
If you think the only way to get a painterly look is to use long lenses, then perhaps you're thinking too much and not shooting enough.
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I don't think long lenses are the only way to get a 'painterly' image... just I tend to use them for scenics more than shorter lenses, unless I have some foreground element, and I want deep focus...

In your example, the terrain seem 'ok'. However on some wide shots with a short lens, one sees the 'horizon' bowing, which for me is a detraction/distraction... unless there's some motivated reason for it.
 
craigbowman said:
If you think the only way to get a painterly look is to use long lenses, then perhaps you're thinking too much and not shooting enough.
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Oh I know it's definitely not the only way, I'm just saying I want to shoot with it and aim for that look. By painting I mean with a shallower DOF, having the background with a more watercolour painting style. I'm a big fan of scenic wides and they will definitely be in there.


j1clark@ucsd.edu said:
The long lens will 'flatten' the image field. The problem that I'd have is if you change to a short lens for closeups it may result in some sort of jarring disjunction.
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Excellent point, that's something I'd learned but never had to think about until now, thanks for bringing it back to the front of my brain. Something I'll have to keep my eyes on as I shoot, but I think if I go long I'd go with a 120mm at a long distance, then an 85 up nice and close. I'll have to try a camera test and see how that works out.

In regards to lenses to use, I'm going to be bouncing between a 50mm and an 85mm for most of my shots (CU, MS, MLS) that aren't really wide or extremely long I'm thinking those are my best bets. I've got a 28mm for my wides, and a 120mm planned for a couple ECUs, but other than that I think I can get most of my work done with those lenses. Thoughts, comments? First time really using my Letus, and using this many lenses on an adapter. My 50mm f/1.4 and 85mm f/1.8 are my fastest lenses and they have done great during my camera tests in the shaded woods with no light.
 
The most important thing to do is find a stunning landscape and shoot that, framing to make the most of it.
 
j1clark@ucsd.edu said:
The long lens will 'flatten' the image field. ...
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Yes, it's called compression of space.

ie. 300mm lens: The snow capped mountains in the furthest background are actually almost 40km away.

pits_001.jpg


Notice foreshortening of the dashed center lines; but it also messes with our perception of time and distance of the biker going from the point entering first turn to exiting final turn and exiting frame.

road_mcycle1.jpg


road_mcycle2.jpg
 
I would go out into that forest, spend the day there taking note of how the light interacts and changes throughout. then build your schedule to capture those key moments. once you know what you want to capture and when, then determine how.
 
Zak Forsman said:
I would go out into that forest, spend the day there taking note of how the light interacts and changes throughout. then build your schedule to capture those key moments. once you know what you want to capture and when, then determine how.
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I would take notes, and photos for reference. As noted before, framing is very important, however, the lighting is going to make or break a shot, IMHO. The light early in the morning, or late in the evening is more often then not, very pleasing. The lighting during mid day can be very boring.
 
Thank you everyone for the replies, they've been great! I'm really hoping to maintain the beautiful picteresque feel throughout the whole short, as the title of it is "The Woods". Lots of scenics and travelling shots between the dialogue, trying to convey the emptiness and stillness of the woods. I'm just hoping to not over-do, and can hopefully come up with some interesting shots without repeating myself too much. I already feel like I'm going to be panning around and racking focus too much, but I think it's okay, as long as the shots are noticeably different in terms of composition and subject matter. Fingers crossed?

Homunculus said:
also go watch Barry Lyndon. arguably the most picturesque, paint-erly motion picture ever committed to film
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Checking it out now, thanks for the recommendation!

David G. Smith said:
I would take notes, and photos for reference. As noted before, framing is very important, however, the lighting is going to make or break a shot, IMHO. The light early in the morning, or late in the evening is more often then not, very pleasing. The lighting during mid day can be very boring.
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Very true. The "magic hour" is amazing in the forest. The area is very mossy and even at 11:30 the light really accents the trees.

This here is some location footage I shot one day:
http://vimeo.com/13440112

And below are some quick phone photos I took today while working (I'm a greensman). Just ideas and samples of the area. The last photo is going to be the poster for the short, but with silhouettes of two hunters walking across it. I really wanted it to be across a bit of a gorge, high above a creek or something, but it's not safe and I haven't found the right one yet. That log is really 5 feet away from the bank behind it. I'm going to fool around shooting it wide and telephoto. Telephoto will make the bank almost look closer for sure, but it might look more interesting. With the right angle I am blending it into the top edge of the hill, so you cant really see how much depth there is between the two.

photo1.JPG


photo3.JPG


photo4.JPG
 
Just watched your test footage. Be careful in thick woods. Without illumination theres a tendancy to overexpose some areas to bring up shadows. Make sure you have some means of getting some light on your subjects.
 
You have some seriously awesome woods there, definitely a great location for a shoot.

I agree with the last poster that in the test footage most of the shots were overexposed. I think a lot of that probably has to do with the time of day you went. I'm guessing the best times are going to be morning/evening when the light isn't so harsh. If you can get the lighting right i think you might get a really great aesthetic going on there.
 
Noel Evans said:
Just watched your test footage. Be careful in thick woods. Without illumination theres a tendancy to overexpose some areas to bring up shadows. Make sure you have some means of getting some light on your subjects.
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That is going to very critical. The references you sited, Roger Deakins, and "The New World" were shot on film (and with budgets I imagine you do not have). With color negative film, it is easier to expose for the shadow details, and still maintain highlight detail. With a video DSLR (or any digital video camera for that matter) you can not do that. With a video DSLR you are going to have to expose so that your highlights do not peak/clip (Over expose) and in that forrest environment you may (most likely WILL) have shadows that fall off the toe (the bottom end of your dynamic range) and go black. The issue is that a digital camera, including video DSLRS, will not render underexposed shadows as black, but will introduce noise in the the shadows, which sucks. You will need to have a method to get some light into your scenes and decrease the luminance range of the shots (Bring the shadows in the shot up above the toe, for proper exposure). Of course, renting a grip/lighting truck with HMI lights, and a generator is the preferred answer, however, we can't always afford that. If budget is an issue (When isn't it) I would suggest lower budget alternatives. Large reflectors, mirrors to bounce light into reflectors or onto the scene and low powered/high output daylight lights (CFLs and regular fluorescents) powered by generators or by AC inverters, should be considered.
 
jghenderson said:
You have some seriously awesome woods there, definitely a great location for a shoot.

I agree with the last poster that in the test footage most of the shots were overexposed. I think a lot of that probably has to do with the time of day you went. I'm guessing the best times are going to be morning/evening when the light isn't so harsh. If you can get the lighting right i think you might get a really great aesthetic going on there.
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Yeah, it's definitely peaking there. I didn't even touch the Iris besides an initial flick for those shots. It was a pretty quick in and out of the woods, more to show the crew what type of forest we were in,not a real camera test. Excellent observations and I'm glad you pointed them out, because I wasn't really looking for it that time but it shows how easily it can happen out there. That's my biggest concern right now. There's a lot of patchy light coming through that could be an issue, so I'm planning to start my day with some of the scenic travelling shots, then go into dialogue before 10, end that 1 noon and then get my last driving/walking shots.
 
To stay within your limits you could find a clearing and shoot with the sun behind the camera. Deep woods will be a huge problem in terms of image quality on a video camera with no lighting.
 
MatthewC, its great that you're visiting your location(s) and posting images and footage even if its just quick 'n' dirty stuff for the moment. The cinematography section is a lot more fun when we get to see visuals of what people are discussing. I started posting images recently hoping that someone else would follow suit. Maybe its a B.C. thing? Anyway kudos! Keep it coming!!
 
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