Getting Haze Light Rays in This Location:

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David_Pritchard

Member
Hello! DSC09973-HDR.jpg

So I'm thinking to haze up this room and place 3x 1k ari Tungsten fresnel on the left through the window as the models walk away from the camera towards the kitchen. The arri lights would need to be gelled, maybe at half ctb for a warmer glow and more intensity.

Are 3 1ks, gelled powerful enough to make decent beams? I want it to look fairly natural and subtle. Like a warm glow on a hot summers day. White rays would be ideal if I can get away with full ctb? Probably stick something in front for a slightly broken up beam.
 
I don't think you are going to be anywhere near powerful enough to give the desired effect with a trio of 1K's.

But do your own testing in advance if you have the ability.
 
That's a pretty large location to get light rays with such small lights. You can likely get away with some source fours 19 or 26 degree, though they are small 750w lamps, but the lens will give you the beam.

Also you say you want a warm glow, but want to gel to full CTB and make the light bluer?

Truly the best method is to get an HMI or perhaps you can get away with a Joker and throw some straw in front to warm it up. Have a spot lens on it and haze up the room.
 
Depends on time of day and ambient light you are competing with but 1Ks probably aren't going to get you what you want unless it's early morning or dusk and the sun is on the opposite side and you black the windows on that side. Generally need at least 2500 watt HMI PARs to see anything in sunlight.
 
Ok thanks for your input guys! So at sunset the room will actually get the sun shining through with golden light on the left of the picture. So correct me if I'm wrong but the sun shining through from the left, if I haze it up should produce some lovely rays? Maybe diffuse a section that the talent walks through and then let a sunbeam hit them hard?
 
David_Pritchard said:
These source fours are very interesting! Shame they're in 3250k though. Love the fact you can put the gobos over them.
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If you’re renting, they make LED versions that are daylight and variable color.

Source Fours used to be one of the greatest “bang for the buck” Swiss Army knife tools that we had. But for some reason, they have become a lot more expensive compared to the past and some places do not even stock them anymore, including B&H. Kind of the ‘standard’ that a lot of us carry is the Source Four 750 watt 50 degree model. You could walk into almost any Barbizon and walk out with one or order from B&H no problem and they were about $300. Now B&H lists them all as special order only and they’re $513, now. There are companies selling refurbished(used) barrels for more now than the entire fixture used to sale for. Hive wants close to $400 for just a refurbished barrel and lens. What am I missing here? Did manufacturing costs jump up that much on them?
 
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I'm based in Phuket, Thailand and renting is not an option unfortunately! Otherwise id take hmi pars for sure! So can anyone confirm what I'm predicting about using sunlight from the sunset hour is correct? It's my first time using haze.
 
Run&Gun said:
If you’re renting, they make LED versions that are daylight and variable color.

Source Fours used to be one of the greatest “bang for the buck” Swiss Army knife tools that we had. But for some reason, they have become a lot more expensive compared to the past and some places do not even stock them anymore, including B&H. Kind of the ‘standard’ that a lot of us carry is the Source Four 750 watt 50 degree model. You could walk into almost any Barbizon and walk out with one or order from B&H no problem and they were about $300. Now B&H lists them all as special order only and they’re $513, now. There are companies selling refurbished(used) barrels for more now than the entire fixture used to sale for. Hive wants close to $400 for just a refurbished barrel and lens. What am I missing here? Did manufacturing costs jump up that much on them?
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I wonder that as well. I've been buying some used and abused ones via ebay lately with some success but you need to have some additional units in which to scavange parts.
 
Something else to think about when hazing a room are smoke detectors on location.

The amount of haze needed to give a consistent look in a room of this size with tall ceilings.

As well as the short time you will have to get your shots while only using sunset to light the location.
 
Yes already pre planned the smoke alarms can be turned off or ignored. No sprinkler and it's just an annoying noise hehe! Firstly though I need to work out if it will work! Will the sun shining through naturally create beams normally when hazed up? I'm going to order in the morning if it's a resounding yes!
 
The sun *can* give you the shafts of light in the right conditions. BUT it needs to be the proper angle and have something to cut it to make it a shaft of light like tree leaves etc. Even so it's likely to not last a very long time, so it's best to create your own sun. You could always shoot it at magic hour and hide some source fours in the ceiling to give you some shafts of light, but with if you want to go wide with those large windows you're going to need a big source. You can probably get away with a 4x4 mirror/shiny board if you can get full sun to bounce at the righ angle, but again you will have to adjust them as the sun moves, and if you have clouds that day you're screwed.
 
You need to think like DP here. Since you want "shafts of light", it's highly within question if the actual sun is going to give you what you are looking for. The key is "shafts" of light. The lights that we are discussing, as Run & Gun mentions are 50 degree beam angle, which means the beam is focused within a specific angle and concentrated. You need an aperture for the light to be focused through to do that usually. From the looks of it, your only aperture will be those fairly large windows so your shafts of light will be fairly huge, right? In the scale of the entire room, it may give you what you need but if you are tracking talent walking through the shafts of light in mediums and CUs, you need much more in scale shafts of light. If a model is walking, it may take them five or ten steps to even pass through one of the shafts you will get from those large windows. Make sense? The best way to tell what you will get is to do a test, if that's possible, bring the hazer, haze it up at the right time and see what you get. Short of that, I don't think you're going to get what you think you are without multiple, narrow, focusable instruments, like a Source 4, Leko or PAR with barndoors. If not those, what will create the shafts of light? The sun might if the angles are right but as others have mentioned, that effect may also only last 10 minutes abd be gone.

If I was your DP, and this was our shoot, I'd be telling you you aren't going to get what you want without the right lights and or lighting controls like shiny boards, mirrors, and a grip crew to set and rig and adjust it all.
 
puredrifting said:
Short of that, I don't think you're going to get what you think you are without multiple, narrow, focusable instruments, like a Source 4, Leko or PAR with barndoors. If not those, what will create the shafts of light?
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This is where 2k/4k Xenons really shine (too easy). See more informatio here - http://www.attitudelighting.com/equipment/xenotech-britelight-2k-xenon/

You can group multiple jo-lekos together for a poor man's version - read David Mullen's post on cinematography.com.

I did lighting on this shoot where we used a 2K Xenon inside - https://vimeo.com/159497710 (around 00:36). So you can imagine the firepower needed to give multiple rays coming through the OPs large space during daylight hours.

The luxor hotel in las vegas uses an array of xenons for their pyramid light.

luxor2.jpg

luxor1.jpg
 
Wow, some great responses! So I guess what I will do is:

Cover some of the windows leaving gaps to form beams in 1 or 2 key places, mostly to draw focus to the art on the right. I don't actually want sharp beams of light necessarily, even a soft glow with an obvious gradient coming in from the left will be nice with the odd beam. The sun will however be at 6 o clock if the center of this picture is 12 o clock which I believe is a bad angle for this? I do intend to get the opposite angle also as a 3rd shot, hero shot, slightly pointed up camera sliding backwards in 50 fps which will have the sun then at 1 o clock from the camera. I should note, the interior will be darker than in my above picture as i'd lifted the shadows up about 2 stops with a brush. Here is without that to show it's actually quite dark and lots of contrast. Maybe easier to produce the beams in this setting? DSC09973-HDR-3.jpg


If I can achieve a haze in this kind of style I will be happy!

2966_PB3_22NOV2015RV.jpg
 
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If you dont need a defined shaft/beam of light you will have an easier time with sun coming through the A-frame window. Coming from the side though you're going to need a powerful source since due to the overhang you're going to need a very low sun angle to make that work, and surely the environment outside will cause you problems blocking sun.

if you can rent yourself an hmi and generator you will ensure that you will be able to pull this shot off. If you rely on the sun you may get lucky and it will work. If you MUST do it that way, you should have a test day to haze out the room and see what you get.
 
Thanks Rob! Btw just looked at your reel and it's awesome! So i'm happy to get your input! The room faces onto the ocean, about 10 meters away so its an unobstructed view apart from the infinity pool! I've decided because of the overhang and time I'll have, to only concentrate on the 2nd angle so the sun will be shining into the room on a 45 degree angle and back-lighting the haze.
I wish I had the budget for an HMI but it's incredibly difficult to get them to the Island I'm based on!
Worst case if weather turned bad which is unlikely this time of year in Thailand, I'll just attempt to put 3x arri fresnel and hope I get at least a bit of a glow for their entrance!
 
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