General lighting kit for specific look...

Eddie B

Eddie B

Active member
I have a Canon 7D and am comfortable in terms of having all the equipment I feel I *need,* with one exception: lights. I'd like some advice before buying a light kit.

But ah, we've seen this topic often here and elsewhere. But I'm seeking a specific type of look that I will give you examples of. Below are some links of films I adore and which I feel share a lot of similarities, which I would like my films to exhibit as well. Even if you don't care for the way these films look, I hope many of you can lead me to some great starting lighting kits. Budget is under $3k for this.

The Devil, Probably
Clean, Shaven (disturbing - be warned)
The Seventh Continent
Jeanne Dielman

What I like about the look of these films is they aren't the usual "dramatic" like you'd more often find. They have a very basic look about them that is the ideal for me. My guess is perhaps I'll need a basic kino flourescent kit with a fresnel or two for specific instances. I'm interested in hearing thoughts on this.

Another thing to note is, while I use a Canon 7D, I'm not a fan of cranking up ISO, so I'd like to keep most scenes I do lit to a point I don't ever have to go above 640 (with the exception of some inevitable nighttime exteriors, which is acceptable).

Thanks!
 
I think its more so what you do with the lights then what lights you get. But you should get an arri kit. I think they're the Pro-Tools of lights.
 
Enlight3ned said:
I think its more so what you do with the lights then what lights you get.
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I'm not so sure about that.

Enlight3ned said:
But you should get an arri kit. I think they're the Pro-Tools of lights.
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I'd still need to know more specifics, like what wattage to get and what quantity of each. Can anyone give me some ideas based on the videos I posted? I realize there's no definitive correct "answer," but I just want some educated guesses based on the examples I showed? If I approached you with those videos and asked you to light my film that way, what lights would you need?
 
No, it really is more about what you do with it.

Those looks could be achieved with any number of lighting instruments; there's no one set which will define it. Often, it's about making what you have on hand work.

What it really comes down to is placement, spillage control, and the degree of hardness and softness. Specific instruments, specific wattages, are far less important. There are tools which will make it easier or harder, but it's what you do much more than what you have.

So, you'll want a mixture of hard and soft, or hard with plenty of diffusion options (soft boxes, silks, bounce cards, etc). You'll also want plenty of ways to control the spillage -- barn doors, black foamcore, black wrap, etc.

A mixture of wattages will certainly be very helpful, but it's less crucial as there are lots of ways to control brightness of a light.

And, you'll want to practice, figuring out how they made those films like the way they did -- soft or hard light? What's the exposure? Where did they put the shadows, and where do you have place the lights to get them there? Once you understand how to do that, you'll understand how to do it with all sorts of different instruments and you'll know what to look for.
 
David Jimerson said:
There are tools which will make it easier or harder, but it's what you do much more than what you have.
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That's why I'm asking for advice on specific lights, rather than guess myself. I'd rather have the tools that will make this lighting setup easier than merely possible with a lot of unnecessary work. While I understand what you're both saying, I just really want some specific advice on specific lights. I return to the question of if I asked you to light this for me following those examples, what lights would you first go to, assuming you had any options under $3k, and keeping my camera and ISO desires in mind.

When I invest money in equipment, I prefer to invest it wisely in what will be the most time and cost sensitive. When gaffers pull lights from a truck, they may educated guesses on which lights they need rather than grab any light and then make it work.
 
I'd grab some used fresnels. Kinos are nice but you'll get more mileage out of hard lights and you can diffuse them. I'm hesitant to "kits" just because I've always thought for the money I spend on a kit, I can assemble my own kit with things I know that I'll use instead of having them stuff a case with a bunch of fluff. Having said that, I learned by using Lowell lights, the open face or DP lights (I think those the square ones? I'm going off of memory, I haven't touched any in a while, man those were hot!). But you can go that route or grab some cheap moles, peppers or arris if you want. I like Arris, I've used them a lot and they were lighter when I did more on the go stuff. I personally use moles and peppers and they are kind of heavy but they're built to last forever. Not like I've ever had problems with arri, I just saved a lot by getting used moles and peppers instead. You could slowly build your collection. You'll save money, spread the "damage" and also figure out how you light and what you should get next. You'd be surprised at how much you can do with two lights and a grip kit. I personally like 600-650s. I use them a lot but only because I usually shoot in specific scenarios. I'm not crazy about tiny lights like 150s but I think it's worth having at least one because there will come a time when you need it. But you might even want to rent a kit and see what you like. You'll find for yourself if those lights are too dim or too bright for what you plan on doing. I've lit scenes with a window and foamcore or with a full set of 'hot lights'. Sometimes a 200, 600 and some foamcore and gels does the trick. You just need to mess around a little. I remember stumbling the same way too. Before I got any lights for myself I thought the Arri 150/300/650 kit was the way to go because it gave me a good variety of lights I used often. I wanted to eventually buy a second so I could mix and match as I need two 650s and 300s more than I'll need the 150s. But like I said, I eventually grabbed those used lights and it saved me a lot of money from going the new store arri kit route. Also don't underestimate blackwrap, scrims, flags, any kind of light control. Just some more food for thought.
 
Deniz Coker said:
I'd grab some used fresnels. Kinos are nice but you'll get more mileage out of hard lights and you can diffuse them. I'm hesitant to "kits" just because I've always thought for the money I spend on a kit, I can assemble my own kit with things I know that I'll use instead of having them stuff a case with a bunch of fluff. Having said that, I learned by using Lowell lights, the open face or DP lights (I think those the square ones? I'm going off of memory, I haven't touched any in a while, man those were hot!). But you can go that route or grab some cheap moles, peppers or arris if you want. I like Arris, I've used them a lot and they were lighter when I did more on the go stuff. I personally use moles and peppers and they are kind of heavy but they're built to last forever. Not like I've ever had problems with arri, I just saved a lot by getting used moles and peppers instead. You could slowly build your collection. You'll save money, spread the "damage" and also figure out how you light and what you should get next. You'd be surprised at how much you can do with two lights and a grip kit. I personally like 600-650s. I use them a lot but only because I usually shoot in specific scenarios. I'm not crazy about tiny lights like 150s but I think it's worth having at least one because there will come a time when you need it. But you might even want to rent a kit and see what you like. You'll find for yourself if those lights are too dim or too bright for what you plan on doing. I've lit scenes with a window and foamcore or with a full set of 'hot lights'. Sometimes a 200, 600 and some foamcore and gels does the trick. You just need to mess around a little. I remember stumbling the same way too. Before I got any lights for myself I thought the Arri 150/300/650 kit was the way to go because it gave me a good variety of lights I used often. I wanted to eventually buy a second so I could mix and match as I need two 650s and 300s more than I'll need the 150s. But like I said, I eventually grabbed those used lights and it saved me a lot of money from going the new store arri kit route. Also don't underestimate blackwrap, scrims, flags, any kind of light control. Just some more food for thought.
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Thank you; this information is very, very helpful.
 
I second the Arri kit. Get a mix like Deniz mentioned.

Personally I'd rather go for some Kino flo 4 tubes because I prefer working with them more. However from the examples given they seem to be using more open face lights than flos. So the Arri kit as mentioned would be the way to go.

However I think it's always a BIG question to know which lights to take. Every time you approach a scene you'll need different lights. It depends on the scene, the mood, how wide/close you are. If it's a wide shot with a lot of depth the 3 arri lights may not be enough to light the scene. Also from working mainly with open face light kits, I despise them for the 'unrealistic' directional effect they usually give (unless bounced) especially in scenes where soft lights really work better. That's why from film to film I suggest different light kits to rent.
 
Three 650s are good, it's just that you need some variety. Some good questions are does your camera need that much light and how big are the areas you usually shoot in? You can dim 650s but dimming these does change the color temperature which can be good or bad depending on what you're doing. I do think a softbox is more versatile and you at least have a 300. Usually before I dim a light, I scrim it or move it further back but I usually choose a fixture that gets me within the ball park then scrim it to perfection which is the beauty of having variety. Now having said that, I haven't really used the arrilite open face floods. I've heard of dps or gaffers having problems with them overheating or melting and such. I can't speak to that myself and it might have been an isolated case but it's worth looking into especially when you want your kit to last you. An open face is a good thing however, so at least it'll be useful. It is a good kit, and I do think everything in it is useful (although you will have to also invest in sandbags, especially with those stands), but it still is a lot to invest especially when you're still learning. Like I said, nothing wrong with going used, you'll save some money too. If I bought arris now and I'm debating it, it would be only because they're lighter and it might help me when running to a location. It is a great kit, just see if you can rent one first and spend time actually using it, not just on a sales floor.
 
Here is a suggestion for versatility and keeping within the OPs 3k budget:

2ea Cool Light 4x55 flos (either studio or compact versions)
1 Arri kit like this http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/541103-REG/Arri_571969W_Compact_Fresnel_Three_Light_Kit.html

You could swap some of the gear around to different wattages or different kits, but the idea would be to have a versatile kit with soft and hard light which could be used together. You can get both 3200k and 5600k bulbs for the flos so the flos can be used in daylight circumstances. Shop used and you could save a little more.

Grant
 
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