G3, mkh416 and phantom power

S

shandor

New member
Hey guys!

I'm using a Tascam dr-680 to record location sound of short films. My mics are 2x Sennheiser G3 Ew112p and a MKH416.

I have this question about phantom power: The mkh416 needs it, and the wireless mics do not. BUT the Tascam has the PP switches paired up (http://www.acquris.se/images/tascam_dr-680_8-track_portable_digital_recorder.jpg)

So, I have been recording like this:

Ch 1: 416
Ch 2: empty
(phantom power on for 1-2)
Ch 3: wireless
Ch4 wireless
(phantom power off for 3-4)

My question is: should the EW112p always be in a non phantom powered channel?

When at first I plugged in a wireless mic in channel 2, it had like a strong sound gain, is that bad? and does this mean I could not plug in a 3rd wireless to channel 2 if I had one?

I'm sorry if this is confusing!
Thanks in advance!
 
What you are doing is correct and you should keep the G3's on the non phantom power inputs.

You should encounter no problems plugging a G3 into a balanced input with phantom power but the extra gain you are experiencing is probably down to the input being at mic level rather than line when the phantom power is applied.

I am not familiar with the DR-680 but if you can switch ch2 to line it will not have any phantom power across it anyway as phantom is only fed to mic inputs!
 
I've used the G2 systems in channels feeding phantom power on a R-4 pro (for the reason you describe - I needed to use ch2). I didn't notice any difference, and I've never heard of it causing trouble to a receiver (though some preamps can be a bit more noisy with phantom on). I'm not an engineer, but I would think all receivers are designed to handle phantom.

Regarding the "strong sound gain", does the same thing happen to the sound if you were to turn on phantom on ch3-4 while using the wireless in them? If it's only on ch2, take a look at the settings for it, maybe doing a factory reset. If nothing changes, I would contact Tascam.
 
shandor said:
Hey guys!

I'm using a Tascam dr-680 to record location sound of short films. My mics are 2x Sennheiser G3 Ew112p and a MKH416.

I have this question about phantom power: The mkh416 needs it, and the wireless mics do not. BUT the Tascam has the PP switches paired up (http://www.acquris.se/images/tascam_dr-680_8-track_portable_digital_recorder.jpg)

So, I have been recording like this:

Ch 1: 416
Ch 2: empty
(phantom power on for 1-2)
Ch 3: wireless
Ch4 wireless
(phantom power off for 3-4)

My question is: should the EW112p always be in a non phantom powered channel?

When at first I plugged in a wireless mic in channel 2, it had like a strong sound gain, is that bad? and does this mean I could not plug in a 3rd wireless to channel 2 if I had one?

I'm sorry if this is confusing!
Thanks in advance!
Click to expand...

This is the third forum I have seen this question posted.

So - plug the receiver into a line input without phantom power - the output of the EK100 is unbalanced.

If you *must* plug it into a mic. input, I would use an adaptor cable with a phantom power blocker.

The mains EM100 already has this inside the receiver, but I don't think it's in the pocket receiver.
 
In my experience with SD mixers and recorders, if a G2/3 EK100 portable receiver. is plugged into a Phantom Pwr. enabled mic input, it works but... battery run time is severely compromised... this is with the OEM locking 3/5mm to XLR-M cable.
Otherwise if running a G2/3 into a (+4dB bal.) line level input, the EK100 portable receiver's AF output level adj. must be set to maximum. (to even approach +4dB nominal input level.. assuming the transmitter's mic level sensitivity is set optimally.
 
Hey John, thanks for your answer in all 3 forums! I swear I "only" posted in those 3.
This has been a very tricky subject and I have not been able to find enough information online. At some middle thread discussion at DVinfo there was someone asking the same, but had lots of different answers, from "Do not phantom power the g3 receiver, it will burn" to "Sure go ahead, they are made to handle that" But at no point of the specs sheet or the instructions phantom power is even mentioned, not as a warning.
The only thing I found is that EK100 does have an unbalanced output. Does that mean it cannot handle phantom power?

I am very curious about what to do because, even though I solved the problem for now by connecting the wireless mics in 3-4 with no phantom, I want to know how to proceed if I get a 3rd wireless, or if the receiver is at risk. About the "gain" I have when plugging in ch 2, it is still there and I believe it happens more when the MKH416 is in ch1.

About what Gary said (and John at the Gearslutz forum) of plugging the receiver as LINE. I'm getting considerably low volume, even setting the mic transmitter in 0db (I usually have them around -30db,-21db) it does not reach the levels of setting it as MIC.
Should the wireless be always connected as LINE?
So what would be the correct settings here?
 
I prefer to plug a G2/3 EK100 into a quiet clean mic level input..due to it's low line level output.. and Phantom Pwr. should be OFF. If it can't be disabled, use a iso blocking transformer.
My previous statement was an example of what happened when PP was mistakenly enabled. No damage or noticeable gain issues, just poor battery economy on the device supplying PP.
 
shandor said:
Hey John, thanks for your answer in all 3 forums! I swear I "only" posted in those 3.
This has been a very tricky subject and I have not been able to find enough information online. At some middle thread discussion at DVinfo there was someone asking the same, but had lots of different answers, from "Do not phantom power the g3 receiver, it will burn" to "Sure go ahead, they are made to handle that" But at no point of the specs sheet or the instructions phantom power is even mentioned, not as a warning.
The only thing I found is that EK100 does have an unbalanced output. Does that mean it cannot handle phantom power?

I am very curious about what to do because, even though I solved the problem for now by connecting the wireless mics in 3-4 with no phantom, I want to know how to proceed if I get a 3rd wireless, or if the receiver is at risk. About the "gain" I have when plugging in ch 2, it is still there and I believe it happens more when the MKH416 is in ch1.

About what Gary said (and John at the Gearslutz forum) of plugging the receiver as LINE. I'm getting considerably low volume, even setting the mic transmitter in 0db (I usually have them around -30db,-21db) it does not reach the levels of setting it as MIC.
Should the wireless be always connected as LINE?
So what would be the correct settings here?
Click to expand...

The EK100 was really designed to go into a -10dB consumer line level device I think.

If you want to plug it into a mic. input I would put DC blocking capacitors inside the XLR to prevent the phantom power getting to the receiver.
 
Yes, the EK100 would have adequate output level for a -10dB (nominal) line level input. +4dB is difficult to achieve, without sacrificing headroom (distortion risk ) on the transmitter end.
 
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