FS100 v3 Issues

M

mcallibn

Member
Lesson Learned!

1. Don't repair clips with the FS100 (or back the originals up first)
2. Use P2 cards if it's important.
3. Conclusion


1. Focus advised me to follow the steps below to repair clips due to
the Avid import issue "Audio::PMM_insufficient_Media()
player version of duration is longer than actual"

Don't do it if you filmed at 720/24p with the firestore set to PN!

FS-100 V3.0 has some improved P2 Repair Clip (eliminates "orphaned" files). As outlined in the release notes.

Clip Repair Procedure.

1) Upgrade the FS-100 to V3.0
2) Note the name of the clip reporting the error.
3) Find the clip number that corresponds to the problem clip using UTILITIES->FILE NAME.
4) Select UTILITIES->REPAIR CLIP.
5) NOTE: this will move and rename the clip into a new folder. Both the new folder and the clip will have the current time and date.
6) Select UTILITIES->ORGANIZE P2.
7) The clip will now have a different name assigned to it.
8) Use the AVID “Media Tools” option to bring the file into your timeline.
9) Should be able to pull into FCP as well.

I shot footage for an EPK which I knew the FS100 would have audio sync
errors later when I brought it into Avid. I received the instructions above via
email and decided to test it on one clip.

I set the project up in AVID at 720/23.96 and pulled the clip in to verify that
there was an audio sync error. Then I disconnected the FS100, found the clip
in error and chose "Repair Clip" on the FS100 then "Organize P2".

When I attempted to bring the media back into my 23.96 project I received
an error stating that the frame rate of 59.94 does not match the current
project frame rate of 23.96.

So I created a new project at 59.94 and brought the clip in (using the media
tool). The clip came out under cranked but the audio was normal but half of
the original clip was missing. So I had fast video, normal audio and missing
audio and footage from the original file before using the "improved clip repair
features". Now my shot is gone forever.

Nice work Focus.

2. I'll Use P2 cards if it's a money shot.

I've been hearing back and forth talk about the FS100 vs P2. This is not to
try and take part in that, but to share my experiences.

I shot an entire day with the HVX200 set to 480/60i without any issues with
the FS-100. Later that night I was filming in 720/24p with the FS100 in PN
mode. The FS100 continually locked up.

I checked the firewire cable connections. I used a different firewire cable etc..
The unit was strapped to a DVRigPro with one velcro strap. It was right on my
shoulder where there wasn't much movement. It was an indoor shot, standing
still yet the unit kept locking up. So looking like the idiot, I kept rebooting the
FS100 (by holding the power button a few seconds and letting go).

In the HVX viewer I kept seeing a red symbol that looked like a tape with an x
through it. I have never seen this symbol before. While the record was
enabled this symbol would appear whenever the FS100 was locked up.

3. I give up on the FS100!

After a year of battling with Focus issues I'm going with the P2 cards
regardless of how expensive they are. I'm tired of waiting for upgrades and
fixes, loss of footage, upredictable outcomes, Avid import issues with audio
sync errors (which was fixed in Aug or 2006 and is now back), lockups and
restarts, clip repairs or clip destruction.

I'd rather worry about getting the right shot and not wether it's going to get
recorded or not.

However, Focus did tell me that these issues will be addressed in 3.1.
While they are working on that, I'll be working on buying more P2 cards.
 
I'd use P2 cards if they'd support non-stop 1 hour recording times.

Sorry you got a lemon unit. Mine has worked flawlessy for a very long time in very adverse conditions.

If you don't need the extended recording times, stick with P2 cards. They rarely lose shots.
 
BenB said:
I'd use P2 cards if they'd support non-stop 1 hour recording times.

Sorry you got a lemon unit. Mine has worked flawlessy for a very long time in very adverse conditions.

If you don't need the extended recording times, stick with P2 cards. They rarely lose shots.
Click to expand...


Yes and to that point I'll have to keep dealing with the FS100.
Sometimes I do long shots that won't fit on a p2 especially when
its HD.

I may work with Focus to send the unit back and have them verify that
I'm not nuts. Perhaps with the unit in their hands they can quickly discover
what's wrong with this unit.

When I first got it, I had issues. They wanted me to send it in to them but I
was selfish and felt I would keep it and use it as is (with lockup issues).
But then I began to rely on it.

Last I checked, they had a 30day turn around on repairing the units.

Guess I'll have to bite the bullet and sent it in...
 
BenB said:
I'd use P2 cards if they'd support non-stop 1 hour recording times.
Click to expand...


I have recorded for over 2 hours NON-Stop with P2 cards. They are hot swappable.

BTW mcallibn, what's with the red type? My eyes hurt!
 
Swapping out cards is not an option on my documentary. Without the FS-100, the HVX would be a usless camera to me. Swapping out means you'd have to buy a ton of cards, or be working a lap top and running the camera at the same time. My specific situation won't allow that.

Not to mention the FS-100 also allows the HVX to do time lapse at intervals not available on the HVX alone, and stop motion. I just started a stop motion animation project. Without the FS-100's SNAP fuction, I'd never be able to reliably use the HVX for this type of work.
 
BenB said:
[...]and stop motion. I just started a stop motion animation project. Without the FS-100's SNAP fuction, I'd never be able to reliably use the HVX for this type of work.
Click to expand...
Why doesn't the HVX's built-in ONE-SHOT REC function work for you?
 
On the subject of stop motion, DV Rack 2.0 (now Adobe OnLocation) has features specific to stop motion, including an onion skin feature that helps with tracking motion and composing the scene. Since this type of shot is usually done in a controlled studio environment, needing to be connected to a computer shouldn't be an obstacle.
 
Well, DV Rack would require I buy a new Windows computer, but I already have the FS and it's working out just fine. The FS gives me one full QuickTime file with all my frames start to finish. Just makes working with FCP a lot faster and easier. I have all my frames in one file, already in QT, ready to go. You use what works for your specific situation.
 
BenB, what intervals does your fs-100 do that the hvx doesn't? And what is the SNAP function? How does it make your' hvx reliable to work with for frame by frame animation?
 
DV Rack would certainly require you to buy the program, but you don't need a new machine, it runs on Macs under Bootcamp. Oh, and it can record to QuickTime, too...
 
ozduc said:
I have recorded for over 2 hours NON-Stop with P2 cards. They are hot swappable.

BTW mcallibn, what's with the red type? My eyes hurt!
Click to expand...


The red type is for bad advice. Didn't want anyone to actually read it since it
destroyed my footage. Just posting exactly what focus sent me as a
work around / fix.

Sorry bout that.
 
THoff said:
DV Rack would certainly require you to buy the program, but you don't need a new machine, it runs on Macs under Bootcamp. Oh, and it can record to QuickTime, too...
Click to expand...

Only on Intel Macs, I'm running G5s, so yes, I WOULD in fact have to buy a new computer to run it.
 
FS-100 allows me to set the interval of each frame recorded, from 1 frame to 24 hours. I say 1 frame and folks get confused. If you're shooting 720/24p, then one frame equals one 24th of a second. If you set the FS-100 to do 1 frame, you pretty much get normal motion video. But try every 2 frames, every 12 frames, every 6 frames, and you get very different looks.

Shooting a frame a second is some of the best quality Time Lapse I've ever shot. Even a frame every 12 frames (half second for 720p24) makes the motion super smooth. And when I'm done, I have it in a QuickTime file, in the format the HVX was set to, ready for FCP right on the spot.

SNAP, you set it up, you hit record on the FS-100, it goes into REC PAUSE mode. Then every time you hit REC on the FS, it records one frame. When you're done, you hit STOP on the FS, and it writes all those frames as one QuickTime file in whatever format your HVX200 is set to shoot in, 720p24, 1080i60, whatever.

And records to the format your FS is set to, either P2 or QuickTime. I like shooting it to QT format. No P2 Import window, none of that time wasted.

You can do this with the HVX, but if you're doing a long project, more than the few minutes a P2 card will hold, well, then you have to TOUCH the HVX to swap out cards, you waste production time, you risk moving the camera rig (even tiny shifts kill stop motion animation), etc.

Remember that Stop Motion animation is shot frame for frame, it doesn't compress time at all. So if you're doing a full one hour stop animation film, two P2 cards won't give you one hour. You'll have to unplug and plug in P2 cards all day long. Risky, but it could be done that way, if you had the extra time and nerves.

I also do some very specific types of shooting on a documentary I'm working on over the next year or so. I have interviews with folks out in the middle of nowhere who don't trust anyone. I jump through major hoops to get these interviews with these old folks who are taking stories and eye witness accounts of events and little known Louisiana history to their graves. They only allow me, and sometimes a more professional interviewer, and that's it. Rules are, we start rolling, we sit still and ask questions, that's it. So how can you pull that off with an HVX200? Only with an FS-100. Or with a CitiDisk that is unreliable and underdeveloped, or with a CinePorter that won't be available for many more months. I started this last summer.

When you shoot nature footage, you can't easily swap out cards. You may be hunkered down on the bank of a river, with the camera rolling for long periods of time. If you start swapping out P2 cards, playing with laptops, you could scare away what you're shooting. And you have to be ready to get up and move on the spur of the moment, and go run-n-gun. The FS-100 and CineSaddle allow me this freedom that the HVX alone wouldn't. P2 card swaps ruined a lot of shots for me at first. Then I got an FS-100 and a CineSaddle and now I get it all.

I like SNAP on the FS, cause I control it all on the FS, and don't have to touch the HVX in any way. Don't want that camera to move at all! You could use the remote on the HVX, but I like having QT movie files ready the moment we're done, I like the work flow much better than P2 cards for this sort of thing. I can also shoot stop motion on the same set without ever physically touching the camera for days. In stop motion, TOUCHING the camera rig physically is ALWAYS a risky operation. And I can have my computer running for other things rather than being tied up all day. Stop motion is simply a royal PITA to shoot. The easier I can make it, the better.

We started tests on this stop motion project with a Canon Rebel XT shooting RAW.
But even with a 2GB card in it, we were swapping out cards. We tried with P2 cards, and ended up swapping out cards in the middle of shoots on the same set. FS-100 simply works for me and my personal work flow much better. We sacrifice the quality of RAW photography, but we still get HD at least, and we can shoot the same set up for two or three days without having to touch the camera, or reley on an extra dedicated computer at all. It's a trade off. I sacrifice the quality of RAW photography, but I know the camera won't move a fraction for as many days as we have to shoot that tiny set. And I'm still in the 720p24 DVCPRO-HD realm.

But that is only what works for ME, PERSONALLY. I don't dictate how anyone should run their shoots. If you have a different work flow that works for you, great, stick with it.
 
Last edited:
Ben, you realize that when you shoot ONE-SHOT REC on the HVX to P2 cards, the storage requirements are absolutely miniscule, right? Every time you press the record button on the camera, it appends one frame to the clip -- even a 4GB P2 card should be enough for a full day of shooting.
 
THoff said:
Ben, you realize that when you shoot ONE-SHOT REC on the HVX to P2 cards, the storage requirements are absolutely miniscule, right? Every time you press the record button on the camera, it appends one frame to the clip -- even a 4GB P2 card should be enough for a full day of shooting.
Click to expand...

No, it wouldn't. Stop motion doesn't compress time. We tried, and ate up both 4GB P2 cards easy. Just cause you shoot one frame at a time, you still have to fill up the same amount of time. One frame doesn't cover 15 minutes of animation. Trust me, I've tried it, space gets eaten up fast.
 
If you are shooting stop animation in HD, you are going to get the same amount of time on a card as you would shooting in 720 over 60 or in a 1080 mode. So on a 8gb card you will get about 8 minutes of footage. So 2 x 8gb cards will give you about 16 minutes of footage.
I dont know about you but I would be REALLY BORED if I had to watch 16 minutes, let alone an hours worth, of stop animation on one locked off shot! Even in stop animation movies, I would think you would want to vary camera angles and shoot different scenes.
As for interviewing subjects that lay down rules like you can't move to change a card during the interview, well I think you'd probably be alone in that neck of the woods Ben.
I have done long interviews where I swapped out cards with no interruption to the interview. I kept rolling and just changed the card while a question was being asked, in case I bumped the camera. However with care that can be avoided as well.
 
You must have done something wrong. In ONE-SHOT REC mode, each press takes (by default) one frame and appends it to the current clip. The camera does not continuously record to the P2 card.
 
THoff said:
In ONE-SHOT REC mode, each press takes (by default) one frame and appends it to the current clip. The camera does not continuously record to the P2 card.
Click to expand...

That's not quite correct. You have the option of setting the one shot time to 1, 2, 4, 8, 16 frames or 1 second.
 
1- Yes, this is not "my" stop animation project, just one I'm working on. And yes, Stop Motion is tedious, and I never want to do it again. I have great respect for those who do. More so than I used to!

2- Yes, I am in a very unique situation with my documentary. But if it were any easier, someone else would have done it already. In fact, half the dis-trust is that many have come before, none have yet completed.

3- THoss, I know one-shot on the HVX does that, I never said it didn't, and it works just fine. What I said was I'd rather not have to physically touch the camera that many times doing stop motion, thus the preference (not need, but personal preference) for the FS-100's SNAP fucntion.

Remember that in Stop Motion animation (think Claymation), you still record tons of frames. A 1 minute shot takes hours to shoot, and takes up as many frames as real life action shots. A single position may repeat for a couple of frames, but you still shoot those frames. Thus, you STILL have to swap out P2 cards every few minutes of footage. And every time we have to physically touch the camera rig, we all hold our breath and experience anxiety.

To repeat; This is only what works for ME, PERSONALLY. I don't dictate how anyone should run their shoots. If you have a different work flow that works for you, great, stick with it. But P2 cards don't fit 100% of the situations film makers need to shoot. And thank goodness for the technology, otherwise, I'd not have the DVCPRO-HD format as a practical option. Anyone price DVCPRO-HD tapes lately?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top