FS-4 Settings with DVX??

Reservoir: Nay. You can use any of the drives tapeless, but only if you're willing to control start/stop from the drive itself. You have to pretend they've moved the button from the camera to the drive.
 
This is correct. That is how my dv Rack works the best. That is you guarantee that you get the recording. It makes it harder to use. But works fine with other cams. Looks like a DVX issue.
 
I use the ext. setting to trigger my DV Deck when recording long programs with no problem. I have used a Sony DSR 40 and a JVC BR-DV3000
 
powerdog said:
I don't feel it's right to post a PM publicly, but I will summarize Jan's message to me: she feels it's the drive makers' fault that their drives don't work with the camera, and notes that Panny is willing to share its proprietary specs.
I guess the other way to look at it is, if you want tapeless, consider getting a different brand of camera. The drive makers could probably tell you which cameras are known to work correctly.
Click to expand...


Actually while this is a reasonable summary of what I said, I would like to reiterate: that once you build a standard camera and the drive manufacturer says it is compatible, then they should test it. This is what the controller guys, Zoe and Varizoom did for the zoom controls, why wouldn't the drive manufaturers do that? It is what Tiffen did for their filters, and matt box. It is what Thermodyne and Kata and DV Rack and Apple and Avid and Vegas and.... all did it to make sure that it worked.

My message was to direct the manufacturer of the drive to Panasonic as we are more than happy to help them understand how to become compatible if they are not. The problem is that with as many cameras that we have out there it is impossible to change this spec as some folks have done their homework and others not. How can we penalize those that did the work and change the spec to those that have not.

Many of these folks don't really know that you have a problem and only you their customer can make it so that they make it right. Powerdog pointed out that he was only the messenger, I tried to ilustrate for him in the context of a very busy day and so perhaps I was not as eloquent as I might have been, but the message is not for Panasonic, it if for those that do not work and ther are others that do.

If you wish to pass my email along please email privately and let me know whot to expect. I get 200-300 emails a day, of which about 50 are meaningful. So I dosort. ;-) Thanks.

Hope that clarifies,

Jan
 
I thought I would post a slightly different opinion on the FS-4, sorry it's kind of long winded...

I just received the FS-4 today, so I haven't had time to really beat on it but so far I like it a lot. I bought the FS-4 so I could do away with tape. If you are shooting tape and capturing to the FS-4, the triggering issue may be a show stopper for you.

Not having a tape in the camera, I don't have a problem pressing the record button on the FS-4 instead of the camera, in fact I kind of prefer it. As you start to record the display starts incrementing the time display (on the FS-4) so you have real positive feedback that you are recording.

I've set up the FS-4 to generate timecode internally so each shot ends up as a file on the FS-4 with the proper sequence of timecode. It automatically names each file with the date and time so the takes are all labeled nicely. There are no more time code breaks because I forgot to record check the tape after turning the camera off. :lipsrseal

Playback to the camera is almost instantaneous to review takes and you can run the playback forward or backwards at .5, 2, 10 or 30 times real time with none of the pixelated blockiness you see when running a tape fast or slow.

I shot about a half hours worth of 24PA footage today with no tape in the camera diectly to the FS-4 without a problem. It took about five minutes to copy all the files to my computer's hard drive and they edit with FCP perfectly. I put zero wear on the tape heads in the DVX.

The battery is kind of hard to get off as others have mentioned but it's not that hard, I can hold the latch and get it started with a finger nail. No big deal for me but it is a flaw.

For me, this thing is sweet. :)
 
so jolio, this DOES work with a tapeless dvx?

Can someone please explain what the problem is with having to press the record button on the fs-4 instead of the camera?
 
The problem, for some people in some situations, is having to press a button that isn't on the camera. If you're doing handheld shots, for example, it's easier to use the camera button than take your hand off the camera and find the button on the drive.

HOWEVER, if you decide that this isn't a problem for you, you can buy any of the drives mentioned and work tapeless. In fact, Jollo seems to have turned a bug into a feature! I guess it's all in your attitude.
 
I have sent the good folks at Focus Enhancements this thread and hopefully I will hear from them about what is going on. I thought when they borrowed the camera, that they were testing everything, so let's not lose our cool here folks, if it is something that can be fixed I am certain that they will.

Best regards,

Jan
 
xdinsfx said:
so jolio, this DOES work with a tapeless dvx?

Yes, it works great tapeless with the DVX.

What I haven't tried is triggering record from the camera. I just got the FS-4 before I left for work yesterday and I haven't had time to try to set it up properly to see if that will work. I'll give it a go today and post later.

I have to say this is a non issue for me because I don't run and gun that much.
Click to expand...
 
Okay, I'm back from the lab (the living room actually) and I can't get the FS-4 to trigger recording reliably from the camera. It starts recording to the FS-4 fine but when you press the record button on the camera a second time to stop recording the FS-4 freaks out. It looks like it might be a feedback loop between the camera and the FS-4 (?). The FS-4 tries to make multiple files (instead of one) and the DVX itself stays in record mode (it has the little red dot in the display). Sometimes, the FS-4 reboots itself.

Here are the settings I've tried:
On the DVX: DV control (Camera); OFF, EXT, BOTH, CHAIN.
On the DVX: DV CMD SEL; REC_P and STOP
On the FS-4 I've tried Syncro Slave and Tapeless.
I tried all the above with a tape in the camera and without.

I still like the FS-4 and it's not going back, It works great starting and stopping recording from the FS-4 itself. I figure Focus will work this out with a software upgrade. I'm only posting this because it may help Focus figure it out.
:)
 
I had very intermittent success with tapeless recording with the fs-4. As I mentioned in my original post, sometimes I could trigger recording by pressing the record button on the camera, and sometimes there was no response. Other times the recording would start on its own, and I couldn't stop it by pressing the record buttion on the camera. This is a show stopper for me personally, so I returned the drive to B&H. I suppose it is possible that something was "wrong" with my fs-4, but from all the posts I have read above, it sounds like there is a real issue with tapeless recording when triggering from the camera. I would simply reiterate that if the fs-4 manufacturer did not claim that it was compatible with the dvx (implying that tapeless recording and triggering from camera worked OK) I would not be so dissatisfied with the purchase.
 
Listen, folks: the problem is NOT with your drive, it's with the camera. Period.

Panasonic is using some proprietary standard for its FW communications, and holds the drive makers responsible because they didn't ask Panny for advice, tech specs, tester cameras, etc. The only two choices are "both" with tape running, or start/stop from the drive controls.
 
Ok, Ok...one more time. LET ME GET THIS STRAIGHT!! You absolutely 100% CAN indeed go tapless with the DVX using FS-4 OR DV-Rack. But you have to initiate recording from FS-4 record button or from the Laptop DV-Rack is running on.....and it works flawlessly like this? If I am correct in assuming this.....then what is the big problem? If you have the FS-4 mounted to the DVX...what's the big deal by having to reach up and hit record on FS-4? Are there some that just absolutely HAVE to press record on the CAMERA? And the same with DV-RACK? They don't want to press record from the laptop? I hope I am understanding all of this correct. If I DO get a DVX before the HDX is released I want to make sure I have a flawless way of having tapeless recording. Thanx again!! ~reservoir~
 
reservoir:

I've only been using the FS-4 for 2 days now but yes it works great if you start and stop recording from the FS-4. No tape needed, 100% tapeless. Most of what I do is not mission critical so I can reshoot if needed. If you are shooting a one time only type situation, I would load up a tape as a backup.

Nothing is flawless, I've had shots ruined because of tape dropouts...
 
Reservoir, yes you can go tapeless as you described. If I had known about this problem, I might have waited for a camera-mountable drive (FS-4) that would have kept the drive controls in easy reach, instead of getting the nNovia which is tethered on a 6-ft. cord.
 
Reservoir you are correct. You can initiate it from the drive or the laptop and it works fine. Works like a vcr.
 
OK guys, I just opened the box a little while ago and I've been playing with the new toy. I also found that the Tapeless recording only can be done by hitting the record button on the device, not the camera. To me it doesn't make a difference, maybe a little getting used to, but doable. In my opinion, I'd still try to have a tape in there, since you never know with these gizmos what can happen, better to have the tape as a backup.

Enjoy your FS4
Eco
 
ecoloco said:
In my opinion, I'd still try to have a tape in there, since you never know with these gizmos what can happen, better to have the tape as a backup.

Enjoy your FS4
Eco
Click to expand...

i agree. i'm still having nightmares about the mce quickstream....
 
Okay, I looked into this as far as I could, considering what I have here...

1) Using DV Rack. With a tape in the camera, DV rack records and interoperates with the camera perfectly... hit record on the camera, DV rack records too. Hit stop on the camera, DV rack stops. Works fine, every time, no flakiness, no unreliability.

2) Using DV Rack with no tape in the camera: DV rack never responds, and the camera says "external device disconnect". Setting camera to EXT, OFF, or BOTH, made no difference... record never worked if there was no tape in.

3) Using external tape deck with the camera: works perfectly, every time, whether there's a tape in the camera or not. The EXT control works exactly as you would expect it to, reliably, repeatedly, with no tape in the camera at all.

Conclusions? I think DV Rack and the external hard disks are doing something wrong. Obviously the protocol works, because an external deck works exactly as you'd expect. Since the camera's been on the market for two years, and these other items are brand new, it would seem incumbent upon them to conform to prevailing protocols. Panasonic cannot recall/update the DVX, and shouldn't have to, because clearly the protocol works. DV Rack is a software program that can be quickly updated, and FS-4 provides for software upgrades too.

Hopefully these products will figure out what they're doing wrong, and why they're not compatible. Because my deck (which is not a Panasonic, it's a JVC) works fine, and I'd wager that any other deck (or camera) would work fine under the same circumstances.
 
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