Free Interview Lighting Lessons on Bravo!

MattinSTL

MattinSTL

Sound Modulator
Tivo "AFI's 100 Years... 100 Cheers" and notice that the first cut of each actor interview reveals the lighting setup. It's EXCELLENT because the results are what you would expect for A-List celebrities... i.e. perfect interview lighting... and the best part is that for each new interview you get a new approach. The lighting tools that are being used change each time (not always completely changed... but a variety none the less).

This will probably be more helpful to those who have some familiarity with lighting tools... but if you know what a fresnel, flag, c-stand, softbox, cookie, and hard and soft lighting are... even if you don't know how to use them, but you know what they are, then this show will show you how to effectively light all skin types of both young and old... as well as men and women.

I'm sitting here blown away that whoever produced or DP'ed this thing chose to start each interview by revealing the setup. You even see the cam and boomed mic in many opening shots... and that changes as well. It appears that it's mostly BetaSP... but man... I'm recording it right now... if you do any "talking heads" then you'd be nuts to miss this show.
 
Thanks Matt. I just set it to record. I love my DVR (Tivo-like box). It is on at 10:30am, 12/29/06, for those reading this in the wee hours.

Matt, you look like an angry Steve Austin in your avatar pic. Why am I going to get an Oktava? Cause Stone Cold MattinSTL said so!
 
Hey Matt...how about posting some of the best screen captures?? That would be enough. Or if DVXUser isn't cool with that then post elsewhere and send a link! Please? :)
 
I'm sure they'd be cool with it... people are posting frame grabs of major releases and TV shows all the time... one of my personal favs is Monte Python telling off some noob.

Man... as far as sitting there capturing frames... lemme' see if my Tivo will make this easy.

I'm the guy who tries to simplify everything about video production... and then when I start breaking it down it's really not THAT simple, but in my mind it is... before you think I'm being egotistical about it let me explain... lighting (and sound) is FIRST about controlling UNWANTED light (or sound). The FIRST thing you need to do is get the location right... get the canvas white before you start painting on it.

With lighting... getting the canvas white is really getting the canvas black. Black out any unwanted or uncontrollable light. The reason the giant studio buildings in Hollywood came to exist was because it was the best way to control unwanted LIGHT and unwanted SOUND. Then... THEN we begin to paint.

The thing I like about this Bravo show was how simple they make the perfect interview lighting setup appear to be... and it's really about that simple. For a basic one person interview... I key from either their best side or from the side that the set/shot list requires... then get the flexfill just out of frame on the opposite side... coming slightly from behind as long as the flexfill is big enough to come far enough forward to bounce light into the shadows of their face (the Westcott rectangle shaped fill is great for this... and only about $67)...

If you have a softbox then I'd have a grid on for this... if you're using a location flo then you're going to need a flag to cut the spill off the background.

Next you use a 150w fresnel (or some other chosen CONTROLLABLE light) to cut the person off the background with a rim of light... and put THIS light on a dimmer! You want to dial it down until it's a tasteful, and subtle effect. This light will be just out of frame on the opposite side as the key (usually) and above the frame line. I like to use c-stand arms for this, with a hanger so that the hair light is actually OVER the shot... where the stand would be IN the shot if it weren't for the hanger/arm setup.

Okay so that's your 3-point lighting on your subject... now hopefully you chose a good BG... (background)... you want something interesting, but not distracting... this is how cookies came to exist. A BG of dappled light is an interesting, and seemingly natural looking BG... it mimics sunlight trickling through a shade tree in the summertime... which explains why in a pinch people will grab a ficus tree and shoot a gelled 650w fresnel through it. Putting the light closer to the ficus or cookie makes the pattern more diffuse and pulling it farther away sharpens up the definition of the pattern.

Bravo! used a projector to actually shoot stills of the movies that they were talking about on a BG... and this worked really well. It was effective for the interviews, but it was still the same basic approach... only instead of a hard light and cookie it was a projected still. Frankly I think this could be a really cool effect for LOTS of stuff... You could use a projector (normal home TV projector) to shoot a picture or even moving video behind an interview subject... and as long as you light the subject independently then you got it nailed.

The reason I posted about this in the first place was because I consider this type of lighting setup to be so simple at this point... it's second nature... and if you watch that show you'll see the same principles repeated over and over with a variety of tools... and you see the distances between light and subject... cam and subject... and the way that they had to CONTROL the lighting for each new setup.
 
Thanks for going into that for us Matt. I saw the show and was pausing on the shots of the lighting set ups. I was wished the camers was even further back many times. They really did light young and old and black and white excellently. I am learning interview lighting and I noticed a few of the things you mentioned, but there were some setups where I wished I could have seen what the key was. They usually shot with the fill, the hair light and the background visible.

But it was definitely useful to look at. And on top of that it was a great special. I couldn't belive I didn't figure out what number 1 would be before they mentioned it. I felt so dumb.

So Matt one question, what do you generally use for a key? How bright and what determines where you place it? Do you just start at 45 degrees from the camera and 45 degrees above the subject and work from there until it looks right?

Thanks,
Alex
 
Personally for a single person interview (and this applies to the stuff that we've done for Modern Marvels, E! Tv, etc)... we start with a 24x32 Chimera (I use Westcott when it's my money and my own shoot) with a 750 or 1000w tota inside... you can use a 1K in a tota if you take out the screen and open the doors all the way so that the doors are actually facing back some... allowing the bulb full heat ventilation... lowel even says that 1K is okay in a tota if you do it like this.)

We (and I alone) also ALWAYS use a grid in the softbox... so far I've never been in a situation where I don't want the control that the grid provides. Photoflex sells a grid for $99 for this size Chimera and/or Westcott.

Then yes... I start at about 45 and 45 from the talent, but it also depends on the facial characteristics of the talent. If somebody has wrinkles or facial scaring to be aware of... then lighting DOWN on them brings those details out more... so I may put the softbox down lower to avoid bringing out details that they don't WANT brought out. If it's a man... then typically it's better to let some of those details come out then to glamour light them like I would for a woman. (my opinion only here) A man's face should have some defining shadows...

If it's a daylight shoot... then I can either pop on a full sheet of CTB by using clothespins... Oh I mean C47s... OR we may use a Kino Diva 400 as the key. If it's me shooting my own stuff then I may use one of my own flos in the place of the Kino. I have a lot of ways to cover this type of thing... but the lighting logic is still the same...

So once that key is set up... and I should add that whether it's a pro shoot for Discovery/History or if it's my own stuff... I always put up a monitor and cam FIRST and watch that monitor constantly as I'm doing this other stuff... before the talent is even there... and somebody else sits in while I'm daialing this stuff in... they don't sit there as I set it up loosely, but once I think I'm close they sit in. My own monitor is STILL not a pro monitor... it's the sharp flat screen that I talked about a year ago... when it's a pro shoot we have a Panny monitor that kicks ASS... it's a flat panel that runs on AB Hytronic and it displays IRE and everything... in HD... it's awesome... about $5K+ though.

So anyway... I'm watching the monitor and seeing where spill is going. I also have a fill reflector set up opposite the key... sometimes parallel to the talent, sometimes angling the reflection UP into their face from SLIGHTLY below.

So now you have somebody sit in... (I'm going to assume that you have the BG light set properly and you have the hair light on a dimmer so that you can dial that in once they sit down... I have the BG light on a dimmer also personally... Harbor Freight... $12 each... why wouldn't you have this option? NO dimmer on the key though... for me that dimmer is called the camera... then everything else dials in to that.)

Okay with your stand-in (or sit in) you can watch the monitor and see how movements on the softbox (or daylght flo) affect the set and the person... a softbox can be at some wacky angles and not seem to change the light very much on your talent... but it makes big changes on the set. So for lighting the person it's about the height of the box off the floor... but for lighting the set (for better or worse) it's about the ANGLE the box is facing into the set. You can simply move it back and forth while watching the monitor... and on that monitor you can watch the person and the BG... you dial it right in, just like that. You'll see a clear line of light cutting into the background and then you back it off again to light only the talent. If you're making deep shadows or bringing out wrinkles then lower the light on the stand.

The same rules apply for daylight flos... but flos usually have really hard to control spill... I keep 24x36 full stop flags with me ALL the time... as well as c-stands and arms to control things like this... actually I usually have 30x36 flags because the price per inch makes these the best value if you simply want light blocking real estate. I sewed velcro onto the edges of these and they can be like 30x36 floppies... meaning I can pop on full stop black and have a 30x72... or even a 30x108 and go to the floor.

They are MSE and they cost $40 each I believe... plus you can pony clamp white or silver bounce to them if you want another reflector instead... for flo control I like big flags. A Road Rags II is nice to have handy if you can afford that route. The 1 and 2 stop screens are great when you have say... an indian or black guy in a white suit and you want to knock down the key on his suit, but fully light his face. Then you do it the same way... you watch the monitor while you cut the light modifier into the key... you can CLEARLY see the line moving on the monitor... right up to where his suit meets his neck... piece of cake. If you don't have the luxury of these modifiers then you could do much of the same thing with your C47s and an nd gel hanging off your softbox... just move it in place the same way.

Softboxes project this soft, flattering light no matter which way they're pointed... the edge of the box, combined with the grid installed... gives you this fairly sharp point of light fall-off... so the box doesn't have to be pointed AT your talent to give this flattering soft light... just watch that freakin' line of fall-off as you aim the box properly to NOT light the BG (unless you need to... this is why the monitor... maybe something is back there that needs some spill because it's interesting or important to the story? Watch the darn monitor and you can decide these details in real time!)

Since flos don't give you this same level of light control... due to the increased spill factor... I use one of my big flags between the light and the BG to work like one side of a giant softbox... (I'm actually working on a flo array to go in my softboxes so that I have the option of using the same setup everytime, but more on that later)... but the logic in setting up the key is the same whether it's a daylight flo or tungsten softbox...

Trust me... it's not complicated after you do it a few times... height equals wrinkle and scar control (a rule that can be fudged some for men)... and angle equals spill control. Watch the monitor and you can dial it in within minutes.

I should add that choosing the best shooting spot within a given location... and then lighting that spot... can take us between 1 and 2 HOURS. This may involve moving things... blacking out windows... using blackwrap on can lights that can't be turned off... blackwrapping a light inside a microwave that must be open so that the glossy door doesn't reflect our cam setup... etc. etc. THEN after we get comfortably close (and on schedule) we can bring in the talent and dial it in perfectly in 5 minutes OR LESS.
 
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Awesome. That was truly informative. I'm sure it will become easy as you say, but right now I'm absorbing as much information as I can so that it will be routine sooner and I can make the work I do now look better every time. I really appreciate this post, it was very helpful.

Thanks,
Alex
 
I've watched a few lighting tutorials on digitaljuice.com that were helpful but that explanation really sums things up nicely. The extras like key height affecting facial details and time spent in setup really help to round out the whole picture. Thanks for puting your time in on this Matt.

I think this has gotten into sticky territory here!!!:-Mark-14(DBG)

Edit:
Delete "I think this"
Insert "This definitely"
 
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Thanks Matt, that was really informative.

Are you saying for interviews, you generally do a 2 light setup, a key and a backlight, and then use a bounce for fill?

And then lighting the background separately... oh man, I'm gonna need to buy a lot more lights!
 
I'm saying that I use a lot of different tools, but the PRINCIPLES are the same every time. I was answering the question about key placement in particular. Take a look at my avatar right there... that's a 750w tota in a softbox with a flexfill on my left... nothing on the black duvetyne background. That is a look you could easily get doing an interview with ONE LIGHT.

Lots of ways to do it. I tried to break down how I approach the placement and setup of the key... with lesser details on the other lights.

I've done interviews with ONE light... all the way to 10 lights... it depends on what we want to happen and how crazy we want to get.

There will be a Modern Marvels show coming up in Feb... it will feature "Ice" and we interviewed a State Farm Insurance scientist in Bloomington, IL... they have a "hail gun" there... but anyway... in the interview portion we had him lit as I described... 750w tota in a 24x32 chimera with grid... then flexfill... a 150w Arri for hair/rim... then in the BG we had a couple more 150w Arris picking out interesting details of the lab... like a gelled 150 hitting a microscope... and another gelled to shoot a slash off the scientific looking cabinetry on the wall.

But as for the talent... it was really just ONE light (and a reflector) working... unless you count the rim... which is just to cut him off the BG.

There's another Modern Marvels segment that will be on aluminum recycling (should be maybe this month? not sure) anyway... it's an AB rep talking outside at a recycling center in STL... we lit her with a Diva 400... same approach though... it was SUPER windy that day and the highway was right behind us... this was hell for sound... I can't wait to see how good that one comes out... but anyway... the point is that the PRINCIPLES never change... it's very similar every time and honestly I think our setups look fantastic. I'd say they're as good as the AFI show I'm suggesting you watch... what we do looks like that and we're doing it the same way they are.
 
I don't have cable so I can't catch the show, but I'll definitely see if i can find someone else who might be able to get it for me.

In the avatar, it looks like the source is coming from your right due to the shadows under the left eyebrow, the left cheek and the shadow pointing to the left under your chin. Are you talking camera left or subject left? (Not trying to nag, just wondering if I'm way off on my look)
 
Almost exactly the setup I use for my interviews:

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Hey McGee, I see London, I see France, I see kinos in you frying pans. :)
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Nice lighting on the grabs.
 
Thanks Matt for the detailed input! :) Love it.

I missed the show, if anyone is able to post frame grabs of each setup that would be awesome! ....
 
I think McGee's shot is better for the "sparks" but if you wanted to stop that you could do it with one of the flags I mentioned... and if the sparks were from hot-lights then let me introduce you to my good friend, blackwrap. We save our used blackwrap just like gels... all the smaller gels are in an expanding folder like you can get at Office Depot... the kind with the bungy band that goes around it... a very cheap item... and the blackwrap is flattened back out and put in there with the gels. Larger bits of blackwrap are put in the top of the giant Petrol lighting case along with all the big gels. If you save your blackwrap then one roll of it could last you for YEARS.

Still... I think McGee's shot looks great.

One of the pros I work with is really anal about lighting... he may have flipped the pans around to the less reflective inside... and then put a dimmed 150 arri on it with or without a gel... if it were gelled then he'd make it match the backlight that's hitting the door... as if it were the same natural light source, but with it on a dimmer you could dial it down until it was SUBTLE.

In our pro kit we have a LOT of tools available... some days when we have extra time we get really nuts... the guys I work with are awesome at this stuff and it's a pleasure being a part of it.
 
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