Free 8K Broadcasting

A

androbot2084

Carbonite Member
The ATSC is proposing to scrap the current digital broadcasting system in favor of a broadcasting system that can handle 8K and higher frame rates. The final proposal will be finished by 2016 and I suppose there will be a transition period. The new system is not backwards compatible so older televisions will require a set top box because the obsolete digital tuners will no longer work. I don't think this means that 8K broadcasting will be mandated but the infrastructure must be capable of broadcasting in 8K.

I think this new technology will give free television a lot of prestige because right now too many people think that free television is obsolete.
 
Broadcast television has the best quality image but in reality big numbers sell picture quality. As long as consumers think they are getting full high definition 1080i consumers will think that cable is better. Only when broadcasters offer the big numbers like 8K will people believe they are getting better picture quality. Otherwise there is pressure to eliminate free TV and to sell off the bandwidth. Too many people think that if it is free it must not be any good.
 
androbot2084 said:
Broadcast television has the best quality image but in reality big numbers sell picture quality. As long as consumers think they are getting full high definition 1080i consumers will think that cable is better. Only when broadcasters offer the big numbers like 8K will people believe they are getting better picture quality. Otherwise there is pressure to eliminate free TV and to sell off the bandwidth. Too many people think that if it is free it must not be any good.
Click to expand...

You already need a significantly-sized TV screen to see the difference between 1080 and 4k...so even BIGGER for 8k, so not really.
 
They just made the switch to digital not that long ago, could they not have foreseen this coming back then? All that hoopla the government made about people switching and free convertor boxes.
 
androbot2084 said:
The ATSC is proposing to scrap the current digital broadcasting system in favor of a broadcasting system that can handle 8K and higher frame rates. The final proposal will be finished by 2016 and I suppose there will be a transition period. The new system is not backwards compatible so older televisions will require a set top box because the obsolete digital tuners will no longer work. I don't think this means that 8K broadcasting will be mandated but the infrastructure must be capable of broadcasting in 8K.

I think this new technology will give free television a lot of prestige because right now too many people think that free television is obsolete.
Click to expand...

By 'older televisions' I assume you mean "all TVs" since obviously nothing around today could be compliant with a system that won't be proposed (not even ratified) until 2016. Add in all b'cast gear (including things like communication satellites) and you are looking at billions of dollars (again) to transition from one b'cast format to another. Given the general decline in OTA b'casting revenue I don't see that happening to be honest. A government mandate to switch from analog to digital transmission is a big reason that switch over even happend (though it was delayed multiple times) and I don't think anyone looks forward to going through that process again.
 
The switch to digital began in 1996 so the switch to 8K in 2016 represents a 20 year cycle of obsolescence. The reason why the switch seems so recent is that the transition took 13 years so was not completed until 2009.

As far as the convertor boxes these set top boxes could have been future proofed with MPEG 4 decoding capabilities and HDMI connections that could have outputed a 1080p60 signal but regulations required that the boxes be crippled to output only low definition interlace 480i signals. Thus owners of older HD ready televisions without digital tuners could not enjoy any HD broadcasts.
 
androbot2084 said:
As far as the convertor boxes these set top boxes could have been future proofed with MPEG 4 decoding capabilities and HDMI connections that could have outputed a 1080p60 signal but regulations required that the boxes be crippled to output only low definition interlace 480i signals.
Click to expand...

These were digital-to-analog boxes, not digital to digital set top boxes. You need to cite a source for this bit of info about the regulations crippling the boxes because, frankly, I don't think you know what you're talking about.
 
Ten years ago High Definition ready televisions did not have digital tuners nor did they have HDMI digital inputs but only high definition analog component inputs with three wires colored red blue and green. A digital tuner set top box would have to convert the digital signal to a high definition analog signal.

To qualify for the coupon the digital convertor boxes were severely crippled and could only output an analog broadcast signal. Since we never had analog high definition broadcasting the boxes were crippled to 480i resolution and high quality connections such as HDMI and component connections were banned. If a consumer wanted a set to box with high definition outputs he would be disqualified for the coupon and would have to pay $175 out of his own pocket or buy a new television.

As for knowing what I am talking about I have actually owned 3 digital tuners and each of these devices could output a 480i, 480p, 720p or a 1080i signal so I could receive free HDTV. When my digital tuner burned up I was shocked that these convertor boxes were so severely crippled.
 
Last edited:
So what you are mad about is that the government assistance program only covered SD converter boxes. Personally I don't see a problem with that 'cause if you could afford to buy an HDTV then you could afford to pay full price for a turner.
 
Then let us ban free high definition broadcasting altogether because if you can afford an HDTV you can afford to pay for cable and satellite.

If there is a new government assistance program for 8K television what should be the resolution limit on the new set top boxes?
 
androbot2084 said:
The ATSC is proposing to scrap the current digital broadcasting system in favor of a broadcasting system that can handle 8K and higher frame rates. The final proposal will be finished by 2016 and I suppose there will be a transition period. The new system is not backwards compatible so older televisions will require a set top box because the obsolete digital tuners will no longer work. I don't think this means that 8K broadcasting will be mandated but the infrastructure must be capable of broadcasting in 8K.

I think this new technology will give free television a lot of prestige because right now too many people think that free television is obsolete.
Click to expand...
Honestly I call this a total bs. First of all- can you provide any legit source of information? Second, that would require FCC approval. Right now there is nothing in works that would even indicate this. If there was a specific proposal it would end up right here:
http://transition.fcc.gov . If you can provide us with links to any filed documents, then you are right. However I doubt this, it's just pure and simple bs.
 
I googled it. Here's Wikipedia's brief entry and a document from the ATSC.

Both mention only 4K up to 60fps, nothing about 8K or higher frame rates. And ATSC 3.0 is in very early stages– ATSC 2.0 isn't even close to implementation, and that's supposed to build on the current system before starting over some day with the 3.0 system.

This speculation is pretty pointless, though. Any advancements in video quality from here on out will happen first (and, I would wager, only) on the internet, as IP infrastructure allows it. YouTube supports 4K video today. Netflix will within a year or two. RED is pushing their upcoming 4K delivery marketplace. All IP-based. As the pipes get bigger, encoding gets better, and acquisition advances, you can bet YouTube will flip the switch and allow 8K uploads too, and others will follow.

And there's a growing chance that Aereo's existence will end most free TV broadcasts in the US, anyway. If Aereo's strategy is borne out in court, and the broadcasters can't get the laws changed in their favor, the networks stand to lose huge amounts of money from retransmission fees if they continue free OTA broadcasts. By 2015, those fees are estimated to be almost $3 billion in revenue for the networks and affiliates. The CEO of Time Warner Cable has already said they would explore Aereo's strategy if proven in court to avoid paying those fees. Add to that the fact that the FCC would likely pay the networks large sums to reclaim their spectrum rights, and it's not inconceivable that broadcast TV won't exist in the US by the time ATSC 3.0 is a real standard.

So your 4K/8K/120fps/whatever dream will happen, but I wouldn't look to broadcast to pave the way on that one.
 
androbot2084 said:
Then let us ban free high definition broadcasting altogether because if you can afford an HDTV you can afford to pay for cable and satellite.

If there is a new government assistance program for 8K television what should be the resolution limit on the new set top boxes?
Click to expand...

I don't think that's correct.

Basically it's buying a Television. At one time buying a television for SD broadcast was expensive and out of the reach of many.

You're just saying Televisions have to last for 30 years. I don't think they do.
 
The idea of 8K television strikes me as completely absurd. The reason? We don't even get the full quality possible out of the current system. Do people not understand that the current TV delivery systems have all been severely compromised?

1. Broadcast TV: 1080i or 720p should use the full bandwidth of the channel allotted, 19.2 mbps. Instead, it is over compressed to within an inch of its life so they can multiplex a bunch of s*%tty SD signals along side the main HD channel. The ABC owned station in my area even pushes two 720p signals and one 480i signal in this limited bandwidth. The result is a lot of really bad compression artifacts... basically OTA TV quality is absolute s*%t compared to what it is supposed to be.

2. Cable TV: Cable over compresses cable only channels even worse than the broadcast guys. Again, a lot of really bad compression artifacts and a s*%t signal.

3. Satellite TV: DirecTV is heavily compressed 1280x1080 at 8.25 mbps, Dish is 1440x1080 at 9.1 mbps. These guys can't even do 1920, oh wait, but somehow they are gonna do 8k?

For reference, Blu-ray is a generally awesome 1920x1080p at about 40 mbps.

4K, 6k, 8K, WTF? You want to talk about some serious bulls*%t, when I can't even get the proper 720p or 1080i at 19.2 mbps the way it is supposed to be? I am suddenly to believe that 8k is on the way? Is this a joke?
 
Last edited:
8K technology means advanced codecs that are at least 4 times as efficient as MPEG-2. Over the air television must be competitive or it will die. 8K gives free television serious consideration.
 
androbot2084 said:
8K technology means advanced codecs that are at least 4 times as efficient as MPEG-2. Over the air television must be competitive or it will die. 8K gives free television serious consideration.
Click to expand...

Spoken like someone who likes to read but has no real world experience working in the broadcast industry.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top