Four Mic Setups and General Questions

[ptalsky]

Hey all!

I've been hired on to do sound for a very low budget project and have a few questions for th experts in this forum.

The director has lots of post production audio experience, and decided early on that he wants each actor's dialogue on a separate track. Generally, there is never more than 3 actors talking in any one scene. So, he's renting 3 Lectrosonic wireless lav kits with B6 mics that we will use for each actor. We are also going to use a boom and either short or long shotgun (depending on the location). We're planning to take two channels into the camera, and two will go into a DAT recorder. I suggested we go wireless on the boom too, so that the lag is equal (he won't have to try to re-synch it in post).

So, first question is, does this sound like it makes sense?
Second, is there anything special that needs to be done to support a Dolby 5.1 mix in post? Third, we're going to be in some very echo prone locations (an aircraft carrier for one...) is it better to go with a short or long shotgun? Will the windsock (fuzzy) help cut echo at all? Last, we're going to do as much sound effect capture on location as possible - is it best to capture this in stereo or mono?

Thanks in advance to all! If you have any other suggestions, they would be much appreciated!!! When the shoot is complete, I'll post a write up of my experiences (good and bad).

 

[xort]

Re: Four Mic Setups and General Questions

The delay of hard wiring the boom will be inconsequential. Theorectically, the boom will be farther away than the lavs and so would be out of synch either way. In practice it rarely matters at all.

How are you going to synch the DAT material with the camera recorded material. There is no timecode output on the DVX so you can't send code to the DAT or to a timecode slate. I guess you'll have to use a clapstick and synch manually.

Typically a hypercardioid is used in a very echo prone location but you may need more reach than that. Try all three and see what works.

 

[Gopher_Greene]

Re: Four Mic Setups and General Questions

The wind sock will not help with the echos, but blankets will. Hang them on c-stands every where there not on camera. The DAT I'd record at 44 mhz to match the camera audio. The only draw back to wireless is interference, if your inside a working ship that could be a real player due to all the electronics. I'd keep a cable ready just in case, you know that old "all your eggs in one basket" thing. Finally on the location tech scout test as much as possible.

Good Luck

 

[Dave_Fisk]

Re: Four Mic Setups and General Questions

This is not the way I would go at all....

If you want four tracks, rent a multitrack recorder, like the Deva, or Fostex PD-6. No matter what you do, the audio on the camera is going to sound different than the audio on the DAT...both of which don't sound all that great. I would through a mono mix onto the camera as a reference track for syncing up later (that is called double system), and for dailies. The audio recorded on your recorder can be loaded into whatever you are cutting your picture in as a file transfer from a DVD that is burned from the production recorder. This is better than DAT for two reasons...First, it's much much much faster to import a file than to load a DAT in real time. Second, the media is cheaper. Oh, and any multitrack field recorder you get is going to sound way better than the camera or a dat machine.

As far as delay between your wireless and your boom mic...that's a non-issue. The only concern you should have would be phase issues between the lavs and the boom.

The only way to avoid echo in your recording is to make the room not echo. There is no wind protection that will block echo. As suggested earlier, throw up some moving blankets out of frame to help cut that down. Another thing you will need is some stuff called foot foam. Its thin foam that is sticky on one side that you put on the bottom of shoes. This keeps shoes from making all kinds of noise. I'm assuming you are going to be on some sort of hard surface for a floor since echo seems to be an issue. You'll especially want to do this if you have girls wearing heels, or really loud, clangy type shoes. I did an indie where these to girls were in a big loft apartment, white walls, hard wood floors, and really loud, thick, hard soled shoes. Their footsteps covered all their dialogue, and we had to loop the entire scene.

-Dave

 

[Gopher_Greene]

Re: Four Mic Setups and General Questions

Second that Dave, if you can afford a 4 channel recorder do it. Your audio will be consistent and higher quality!

 

[ptalsky]

Re: Four Mic Setups and General Questions

Hi all,

So here's an update to talk about how the project is going (we're 3 weeks into principle photography).

First, at the last minute the director went over the top and rented a Panasonic Vericam HD setup to use instead of a DVX 100 - so, big changes all the way around camera-wise.

We are running 3 wireless mics and the boom, and the results have been great so far. Just to remind you all, running two channels into the camera, two into a Tascam DAT recorder. Is the sound perfect? No. Is it good enough? Yes. I've been catching lots of ambient sound and background sounds with the boom (boy, you wouldn't believe the sound library I'm building just from creaky noises on the aircraft carrier.)

The Lectrosonic wireless mics are amazing. They are so clear, and we have had no interference problems to date (knocking wood). I love the feature that lets me see the battery level on the transmitter from the receiver, so I'm not having to dig mic packs out of actors pockets to check. The B6 mics are amazing! They are so small that mic placement has been really easy. We've gone in button holes, collars, in the hair, taped on their backs, basically everywhere. The only problem with them is that the talent tends to forget their wearing them...you'd be amazed at the things I'm overhearing...I guess you have to be a true voyeur to be a sound recorder. ;-) The other problem I've had is with one actress - no tape known to man will stick to her skin. I have tried everything...nothing works. I may use superglue next. (Just kidding!)

Echo hasn't been the problem I thought it would be. The big problem has been the wind. Those B6's pick up every bit of wind noise possible (we even have wind covers for them...didn't help). But, the boom is getting really clean sound so that will cover us.

The only real equipment problems I've had to date are:

1. My internally wired K-tek boom won't close up all the way. It tends to stick now...anyone know how to fix this?
2. The battery drain on the two wireless mics connected to the camera is like 2x worse than the one I carry in my bag. We have not been able to track down why this is yet...it just seems like the camera is pulling more power off of these packs.

So, the primary lesson I've learned on this project to date is that whenever possible, use a separate recorder. It is so much easier not to be teathered to the camera.

Anyway, early call again tomorrow...but just wanted to share. I'll post up a final report once we're all done. Thanks again to everyone for all of the great info in this forum!

Phil