for ambient noise....

H

homegrown

New member
Hi,
I am shooting a short film and I have some problems with recording ambient/Background noise.
We are using Sennheiser MKH-416 for everything... indoors, outdoors and everything else(I know it is not the do all mic)
My partner insists that we have to use a stereo mic for ambient, room tone, background noise. He says that it is going to sound cheap and unprofessional without it. He is convincing me to buy or rent a stereo mic such as Audio Technica AT825.  
Do I really need to use stereo mic for ambient noise?
I can't really afford to buy the AT835 right now, but maybe I can squeeze money out somehow and purchase 200 dollar Sony ECM-MS957. Any recommendations?
 
Re: for ambient noise....

thanks img,
I read that before and that made me to think maybe I should use stereo.
Matt said "Sometimes we will record ambient sound in stereo, but often that gets recorded as mono as well. "
Maybe I should buy two cheap shotgun mics like ATR55 or cardioid mics for stereo.
 
Re: for ambient noise....

if you do record your abmient noise in stereo make sure you get some distance between your mics .
 
Re: for ambient noise....

Your partner is a tad misguided IMO. There are certain cases where you want to record bachground in stereo but for narrative films they are rare.

In those circumstances I would generally use an M/S cofig (the AT is an XY config). Recording stereo right is tricky and truely one of the circumstances where I HIGHLY reccomend you hire a professional.

At the very least contact a local professional and go over your script with him. You will find most of the stereo effects are better done in post.

Good luck
 
Re: for ambient noise....

thanks, mates!
Yes, I knew he was wrong!!!(or misguided)
I guess I don't have to buy a stereo mic. If I had money to buy stereo, I would spend it for wireless lav mics.
Anyway, I think Sennheiser MKH-416 is a great mic, but how do you feel about using the MKH-416 to record ambient noise? Isn't it a bit too directional?
 
Re: for ambient noise....

[quote author=wabbit link=board=audio;num=1107372273;start=0#4 date=02/02/05 at 14:07:55]Your partner is a tad misguided IMO. There are certain cases where you want to record bachground in stereo but for narrative films they are rare.

In those circumstances I would generally use an M/S cofig (the AT is an XY config). Recording stereo right is tricky and truely one of the circumstances where I HIGHLY reccomend you hire a professional.

At the very least contact a local professional and go over your script with him. You will find most of the stereo effects are better done in post.

Good luck[/quote]



If you use a stereo mic, it's not all the complicated. Rent a Shure VP88 for a day or two to record your bg's. As a sound designer, I really really appreciate it when the procution guy makes an effort to get wild sound on location. I can go out and record it somewhere else, but it's not going to match the exact same environment the production sound was recorded in. This can make it tricky later on.

-Dave
 
Re: for ambient noise....

[quote author=homegrown link=board=audio;num=1107372273;start=0#5 date=02/02/05 at 14:56:16] Isn't it a bit too directional?[/quote]

That's a situationally dependent question. Just like with dialog, background noise gathering and what mic is proper will vary from situation to situation.

If you getting room tone, always use the same mic you recorded the dialog with. If you are getting something like walla or ambient, you (or rather I ;)) would use a cardiod or hyper in most cases (again depends on location and what sort of sound I am attempting to capture).

For example, I once had to get some background sound at an indoor swimming pool. Tried pretty much all my mics and was not happy. Ended up going the shotgun (surprisingly) when listening to it in post.

Maybe if you give some examples of what you are trying to capture I (or others) could comment more directly. :)
 
Re: for ambient noise....

2 OCTAVAS IN XY SETUP IS ABOUT 400$ , GODD FOR INDOOR AND OUT DOOR , THE BENIFIT IS YOU CAN USE THE SAME MIKE FOR DIALOG INSIDE THE HOUSE
FOR OUTSIDE YOU WILL HAVE TO FIND SOME SOLUTION FOR THE WIND , MAYBE 2 SMALL RYCOTES
OF COURSE YOU WOULD NEED XY PLATE WITH 2 MIKE HOLDERS AND STAND , WORKING WERY WELL FOR AMBIENT AND SFX ( I USE SCHOEPSES FOR THAT MATTER)
YOUR PARTENER IS RIGHT -LATER WHEN YOU WOULD EDIT YOUR FINAL MIX THE STEREO WOULD BE HUDGE BENEFIT
 
Re: for ambient noise....

argg,
I am getting more confused! :-/

Oleg,
if I decide to go with Octavas, what capsules should I buy for stereo recording+indoor recording?
hyper or cardioid? How does Octava with a hyper capsule perform outdoors? If it is anygood, I can just return 416.
and which Rycote wind jammer do you recommend?

Is it alright to use the different mic for ambient sound?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=15198&item=3779750515&rd=1

has anyone heard of Recording Services? They claim themselve as the #1 Oktavas seller, and test every Octava they sell for optimal performance. I know the sound room tests every Octava they sell...


Thank you very much everyone.
 
Re: for ambient noise....

Was wondering if anyone (maybe Oleg) would like to comment on where the AT849 boundary/stereo mic fits into this mix. I've seen/heard this mic used in live theater settings, only live though, it sounded amazing. My question is can also be as good for ambient or reinforcing more the sound that is there?
 
Re: for ambient noise....

for better sound immage the cardioid - but the hc compromise is good as well
the octava wouldnt work as aboom mike for every out door situation becouse it wide pattern
the hc is advanteg for intirer work
dont sell the 416 you wold regrate
the e bay is probably for par of cardioids , the sound room sell their matched par for 400 ++ and every aditional capsul for 64 $
if these are good so you need only one hc to intirial work
the small rycote softies have to be good solution for outside situation
check in tappers forums - these peole use the same mikes for tapping shows - usially they use matched pars , usially they apgrade their octavas to neuman , akg , schoeps and dpa s
sometimes you can find a good bargent on their privius setup :-)
start with www.oade.com
tappers section - used gear
 
Re: for ambient noise....

[quote author=ian_lucero link=board=audio;num=1107372273;start=0#10 date=02/03/05 at 10:21:39]Was wondering if anyone (maybe Oleg) would like to comment on where the AT849 boundary/stereo mic fits into this mix. I've seen/heard this mic used in live theater settings, only live though, it sounded amazing. My question is can also be as good for ambient or reinforcing more the sound that is there?
[/quote]

never used this setup
 
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