Flo recommendations?

R

Raytracer

Active member
A company I work for is going to pop for a fluorescent key for a series of interviews - mostly to keep a comfortable temp in the location.

I'm considering either a Lowel Caselight, Videssence or a KinoFlo Diva.

I'm looking at a 4 light unit, anybody like one of these better than the others? Or have any other recommendations?

Thanks,
Joe
 
I have the Diva 400 and it works pretty well. I had a hard time deciding between the Caselite 4 and the Diva 400, but the decided on the Diva because it includes a dimmer. The Caselite doesn't include a dimmer, but you can individually switch the bulbs on and off. For film work, I'd give the Diva the edge because of the dimmer and the extra control it gives, but for interviews it's a tossup. The Caselite is smaller to transport, so that might be a factor for you, but overall they're pretty similar in function and price.
 
Raytracer said:
I'm considering either a Lowel Caselight, Videssence or a KinoFlo Diva.
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Hey! I'm considering the EXACT same lights! I shoot for a daily news magazine show and do a lot of single- and two-camera interviews. Currently we use Lowel Rifa lights (500W extra small) for keys with two, 2' single-bank KinoFlos for fill. I want to eliminate the Rifas and replace them with Kino-style lights. My only problem with KinoFlos is that they do not make a functional eggcrate (that black plastic KinoFlo eggcrate is pretty pathetic at controlling spill). Fabric eggcrates made for Chimeras and Rifa lights work great at keeping the stray light of the background. Has anyone seen an eggcrate-type (or honeycomb) light control product that will work on either the Lowel Caselight, Diva, or Videssence fixtures?
 
Funny you ask, I've been looking for a fabric eggcrate for my Diva 400. The Diva comes with a silver plastic eggcrate that does help somewhat, but it's not great. Usually, I check to see if Lighttools has a fabric eggcrate since they manufacture a lot of the ones out there. Now, B&H does list a 40 degree Lighttools eggcrate for the Diva 400, but the description is confusing.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/con...609&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation

I thought Lighttools only made fabric eggcrates and this one costs $200 as opposed to the Kino plastic eggcrate that sells for $18, so something doesn't add up. So either B&H has it mislabeled or Lighttools is selling an absurdly-priced plastic eggcrate.




NBCshooter said:
Hey! I'm considering the EXACT same lights! I shoot for a daily news magazine show and do a lot of single- and two-camera interviews. Currently we use Lowel Rifa lights (500W extra small) for keys with two, 2' single-bank KinoFlos for fill. I want to eliminate the Rifas and replace them with Kino-style lights. My only problem with KinoFlos is that they do not make a functional eggcrate (that black plastic KinoFlo eggcrate is pretty pathetic at controlling spill). Fabric eggcrates made for Chimeras and Rifa lights work great at keeping the stray light of the background. Has anyone seen an eggcrate-type (or honeycomb) light control product that will work on either the Lowel Caselight, Diva, or Videssence fixtures?
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Ok, i emailed Lighttools and they sent me a nice PDF of their eggcrates for the Diva 200 and 400 lights. They actually make 30, 40, and 50 degree eggcrates for both the Diva 200 and Diva 400. They're made of black fabric like their other products and I'm sure they're 1000% percent better than the cheapo silver plastic one that comes with the light. B&H has the wrong info and they're going to contact them to correct it, but you can order directly from Lighttools as well. Let me know if you want me to email you the PDF.
 
The CaseLite comes with the plastic eggcrate, but it's black, unlike the Kino silver. Frankly I don't understand the silver eggcrate, it seems to totally defeat the whole purpose of wanting eggcrate! Eggcrate on a softbox should absorb all the odd-direction light, letting only the straight-forward light through. Silver doesn't do that -- it just bounces the odd-angled light around. Sure it keeps the output high, but it defeats the whole purpose of eggcrate in the first place!

The plastic eggcrate with the CaseLite works okay, after a fashion. Obviously the deeper the eggcrate "cells", the more effective it will be in sharpening up the light.

On the subject of Diva vs. CaseLite, I am continually amazed at how much I like the CaseLite. I don't have too high of an opinion of most Lowel products; I think they're optimized for size but not necessarily for functionality. I went to EVS to buy either CaseLites or Divas, and after comparing them side by side I decided the CaseLite would suit my needs better, even if I was concerned about ruggedness, etc. Since getting them, I am continually delighted by them. They are the nearly perfect videography light. They're extremely compact and portable, way much smaller than the Diva cases. They're not dimmable but they do have individually-switching tubes. The barn doors are huge and usable and reversable so that you can use the mirrored side, which can nearly double the output of the fixture. They put out a lot of light -- frequently we'll use the CL4 with only one tube active and it's plenty bright enough.

They include gel clips and a little eggcrate thing. The whole unit fits in its own carrying case, including room for four spare tubes (I carry a full set of tungsten and a full set of daylight in each fixture) and they even have room for a "stand" -- although the stand is the worst part of the package. The stand was picked because it would fit in the case, not because it's appropriate for the light. I use these lights on c-stands or heavy-duty stands whenever possible -- the CaseLite 4 is *heavy*. The included stand is okay for an emergency, but it is definitely not what you want to be using if you ever have the choice.

Also, for those considering buying, if you want to save some dough, buy only the daylight tubes. Tungsten tubes will set you back another $100, but basically the daylight tubes are all you need. Carry a sheet of CTO gel with you for the times you need tungsten-colored light -- the fixture still puts out plenty of light even with CTO in place, and when you need daylight, you need all the punch you can get -- which can only happen with daylight tubes. Don't get tungsten tubes and try to put CTB on the fixture, that'd defeat the whole point. Get both types if you can afford it, and if not, get daylight tubes and put CTB on it to make it simulate tungsten. It is a lot faster and less expensive and easier (and somewhat lighter to carry) than manually swapping out four tubes.

I think the CaseLite is the best-designed Lowel product I've ever used. Do treat it gently; I've seen the latches break off when someone tried to open it for the first time, and I've already broken a couple of the seat-belt-fastener plastic clip things (which is no big deal). But treat it gently and it's a great little fixture.
 
Thanks, Barry_S, and Barry Green for the info! Barry_S, YES, PLEASE send me the .PDF! I have two criteria for the Rifa replacements: 1. Weight. 2. Effectiveness/availability of an eggcrate. Weight is an issue because we're always hanging our keys off the end of a C-stand 40" extension arm, usually hanging only inches away from the head of big celebrities, so I definitely do NOT want a heavy unit to loosen that grip head someday and get me fired AND sued! If what you're saying is true about the Lighttools' eggcrate, that's best news I've heard all year! The single thing that will make my decision IS the eggcrate! And that price seems about right. Fabric eggcrates are a pain to make and tend to be pretty expensive. NBC's paying, so I could care less how much this stuff costs!
 
Great information, thanks everybody!

Barry Green; don't hold back, tell us what you really think! Sounds like the Lowel will fit the bill quite well.

NBCShooter; remember to always put the load to the right of the knuckle, and it will self-tighten under it's own weight.

Thanks,
Joe
 
Ok, I sent you an email with the PDF attached. The Lighttools eggcrates are definitely worth the $$. The crates for the Diva are 3" deep compared with the <1" ones that come with the Divas and Caselites.

NBCshooter said:
Thanks, Barry_S, and Barry Green for the info! Barry_S, YES, PLEASE send me the .PDF! I have two criteria for the Rifa replacements: 1. Weight. 2. Effectiveness/availability of an eggcrate. Weight is an issue because we're always hanging our keys off the end of a C-stand 40" extension arm, usually hanging only inches away from the head of big celebrities, so I definitely do NOT want a heavy unit to loosen that grip head someday and get me fired AND sued! If what you're saying is true about the Lighttools' eggcrate, that's best news I've heard all year! The single thing that will make my decision IS the eggcrate! And that price seems about right. Fabric eggcrates are a pain to make and tend to be pretty expensive. NBC's paying, so I could care less how much this stuff costs!
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Walter Graff posted this a little while back:

http://go-easylighting.com/

I've never used them myself but they look well built and are similar to the Select bank Kino's. They're also slightly cheaper than Kino-Flo from what I can tell. I'm hoping to get one in the nearby future.

Anyone have anything to add?
 
Well. let us know how it works out. I don't see how you can tell anything about the construction from a couple of web photos. It would be nice if they listed some specs for the fixtures, like photometrics, weight, etc. You can't even see what kind of mounting they use. Kino Flo is a whole system, but I don't see that these fixtures even have transport cases available, so they'd have to be significantly cheaper than Kinos to spark my interest.

bcheong said:
Walter Graff posted this a little while back:

http://go-easylighting.com/

I've never used them myself but they look well built and are similar to the Select bank Kino's. They're also slightly cheaper than Kino-Flo from what I can tell. I'm hoping to get one in the nearby future.

Anyone have anything to add?
Click to expand...
 
Thanks for the input everybody! I ordered a couple of Lowel's, so we'll see how they work out.

Man! I saw the fixture price on those GoEasy lights and about had a coronary! Then I realized that once you add the ballast, you're getting close to real money. Look intriguing though.

Joe
 
gaffer 2 eggcrates together to create more directional control, you can get black eggcrates from kino from thier old stock.
 
Ok. Ordered 2 Caselights on Wednesday. Ground shipping. Got one today... way to go EVS!

I've been playing with this thing for about 10 minutes and I'm really digging it. I really love the gadget factor of having everything stow in the one case. I went ahead and got the kit with the cheezoid blade stand because, once you factor in buying the bulbs you essentially get the stand for free. And that's just about what it's worth.

The latches on mine are the metal butterfly type you'd find on a flight case, and seem pretty stout. The only weak point is where they're pop riveted into the case body. I wonder if they've improved them since Barry G got his.

One strange thing I did notice, and I can't really confirm whether it's an optical delusion or not since my sixticolor is now a maraca, is that the biax bulbs seem to be warmer at the "U" end than at the plug side. I've only ever used straight tube flo's before so I'd never observed that. Unless, of course, I'm imagining the whole thing. Anybody back me up on this?

I was concerned with the amount of side spill since it only has two barn doors, but it seems to be very managable, especially with the egg crate. With that in, it falls off a full stop 20° off-axis. If it's still a problem, a little black wrap and/or rigging it "portrait", would take care of that without getting a flag out.

I drug a cow-orker in as a stand-in for a few minutes and I was surprised by the quality of the light. It seems a bit... well... firmer than I was expecting. Not open-face hard certainly, but not double-baffle Chimera soft either. It might be a function of those shiny barn door "intensifiers" but it almost looks like a large fresnel close-in. Actually, I'm not sure ust how I'd go about getting that quality of light at the levels it's giving me. I'm really looking forward to using this on an interview setup. Wish I'd had it last Sunday!

So far, I'm very impressed. If anybody's interested, I'll post more after I've had a chance to use it under fire.

Joe
 
Joe--thanks for posting your thoughts, any followup would be appreciated too. If you let the biax tubes warm up you should see the color temperature even out. Remember to always use the biax tubes with the lamp base higher than the tip so the mercury doesn't sit on the cathode. So if the fixture is horizontal, tilt the lap side of the fixture slightly up and when using it vertically, the biax bases should be at the top.

The light quality is definitely unique, it's not as soft as a big softbox, but still not very directional. I have noticed that the light looks harsher in person than what gets laid down on tape. Have fun with your new toys and post some grabs and your thoughts after you do some shooting.
 
Barry_S, your biax-tipping suggestion is appropriate for the Kino, but not for the CaseLite, because the CaseLite has its tubes mounted by opposite ends (dare I say "interlaced"?) So two tubes have the lamp base on the left, and two on the right.

Barry_S is definitely right about the warming up-- it takes a couple of minutes for the tubes to come up to full power. Once they do, they're pretty uniformly lit across all their surface.

Regarding softening -- get a sheet of 216 or 250 or some other diffusion and clip it to the end of the barn doors, and you can make a comparatively huge light source that will be deliciously soft. Straight out of the box they're a lot softer than an open-face, but they can be made softer still. The Diva offers a "flozier" for softening up their Diva lites, with the CaseLite I don't think there's such a thing but we just slap a piece of diffusion over the front of it. With the large barn doors you can really make a pretty large and quite bright soft source.
 
Ha, I didn't notice that about the Caselites, Barry. The flozier isn't all that useful because it's full gridcloth, so it *really* cuts down on the light (maybe 2 1/2 stops). It would have been *much* more useful if they'd included a flozier made of 1/2 or 1/4 gridcloth.
 
Got my second Caselight in today. DOA. Kind of makes me a bit nervous about their durability. I haven't heard anything bad about them though, so I'll assume it was a Friday instrument.

Fortunately, I don't need them until next week. I'm glad I got them in plenty early to give 'em a good check out.

Joe
 
Sorry to hear that -- that's awful. I don't know of many other users, but I can tell you mine have been through the ringer -- they served as main key lights on a five-week feature shoot, plus on several one-day and corporate gigs and a five-day sitcom shoot. They've been used and used and used. And I've never had a problem with 'em, other than seeing someone else break the latches (he thought there were only two latches and that it would flip open like an Anvil case, so he yanked up on it and snapped the back two latches... guess he thought they were hinges instead of latches). And breaking the plastic straps... but other than that, they've been plenty rugged. I hope you have better luck with your replacement!
 
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