First Time Boomer!

Slimothy

Slimothy

Veteran
Hello,
I've never used a boom mic before, and will be using one very shortly for my zombie short for this months festival. My question: Do I use the on-camera mic for ambience? Also, when I put my footage into my NLE (Vegas 5), will there be two audio tracks? One for the boom, one for the on-camera. Also, anything I should look out for...Any tips/tricks. Thanks, Tim.
 
well if your using an external mic, you'll have to switch your camera's audio options to correspond with the input containing your XLR. In my experience with the DVX I dont think it it possible to record with both mic's simaultaniously( I cant spell that word.) And depending on what NLE you are using, you probably wont get 2 audio tracks, not in Premiere at least. (FCP does "show" two audio tracks but its not different mics, just your left and right side display.) Hope that helps.
 
You'll have two audio tracks if you consider input 1 and input 2 instead of left and right. You can split the stereo tracks in Premiere or you can leave them as a stereo track (bad idea).

I'd plan on NOT using the oncam mic for anything, but experiment with it if you want to. Just set the switches accordingly and the levels accordingly. When you put it into the computer it will be a dual-mono track handled like a stereo track. ch1 will be LEFT and ch2 is RIGHT, but that won't work as a stereo image (or it will come out weird because of the 2-mic technique) so the thing to do is copy the entire audio track and paste it below... then duplicate left on the first track and duplicate right on the second track (Premiere audio options) and now you have two seperate tracks that will feed both speakers to mimic stereo (even though it's dual-mono you and you're viewers won't know the difference).

Now with your split tracks you can mix the two together by using the volume envelope bands that you should be familiar with (lines running through the audio tracks where you can click to make nodes and then pull the bands around the nodes).
 
MattinSTL said:
I'd plan on NOT using the oncam mic for anything, but experiment with it if you want to. Just set the switches accordingly and the levels accordingly.
Click to expand...
Thanks alot Matt. Question: What should I use for an ambient mic? Or should I not even use one at all? I've seen pics of some dvx cameras all tricked out on set, and along w/ a boom mic, they have some kind of on-camera mic attached as well. Is this more like something I should shoot for? If so, what kind of mic is a pretty decent one that I should look into renting? Thanks, Tim.
 
If you don't have an extra cardioid mic then go ahead and use the on-cam mic. It's just my opinion, but you will probably get enough ambience with the boom mic, depending on how good of a boom op you are. If you get the boom in really tight and you're using a really good mic then you may need to add ambience... which would mean you're a great boom op! (Studio clean dialog on location requires a good mic and a CLOSE mic... and a fairly quiet location.)

If you want to win this contest then I'd plan on getting the cleanest dialog you can with the boom... and then add foley rather then real ambience... but since this isn't always practical (for amatures like us) you can try using one half of the in-cam mic and mix that with the boom mic. Sometimes I'll shoot with an Oktava cardioid or hypercardioid on cam and boom with my AKG simultaneously... but usually I'll run the AKG to ch1 and ch2 and set to different levels so that people can whisper or scream and I'll still have a channel to go to. Normally that's what I'd recommend, but since we can't talk about exactly what's happening in your movie... you may want to do the two-mic thing. If, for instance, you have your beautiful girl struggling to escape zombies and you want her frantic dialog to be clean you should be booming her (or even lav)... and the zombies closing in... do they sound good or do they sound like crap? If they sound good and they're around the cameraman then you may want to use the in-cam mic anyway... then mix. I suggest you plan on adding the zombie sounds later and try to focus your efforts on the talent that you must hear clearly. All else can be added on the computer.
 
You can use the built in mic and an external mic. It just changes the camera mic to mono, and the replaces channel 2 with the plugged in mic (just switch the switches under the lcd to the appropriate settings). In my experience, the cam mic on the DVX is actually a damn good little mic, for what it looks like anyway.

But, like the other posts have said, adding ambience will probably not be an issue. I would just roll a wild sound take to drop into your NLE in post if you need it, and while shooting, dedicate that other channel to picking up something crisp and clean (lapel? second boom?)
 
MattinSTL said:
If you want to win this contest then I'd plan on getting the cleanest dialog you can with the boom... and then add foley rather then real ambience... but since this isn't always practical (for amatures like us) you can try using one half of the in-cam mic and mix that with the boom mic. Sometimes I'll shoot with an Oktava cardioid or hypercardioid on cam and boom with my AKG simultaneously... but usually I'll run the AKG to ch1 and ch2 and set to different levels so that people can whisper or scream and I'll still have a channel to go to. Normally that's what I'd recommend, but since we can't talk about exactly what's happening in your movie... you may want to do the two-mic thing. If, for instance, you have your beautiful girl struggling to escape zombies and you want her frantic dialog to be clean you should be booming her (or even lav)... and the zombies closing in... do they sound good or do they sound like crap? If they sound good and they're around the cameraman then you may want to use the in-cam mic anyway... then mix. I suggest you plan on adding the zombie sounds later and try to focus your efforts on the talent that you must hear clearly. All else can be added on the computer.
Click to expand...


Thanks alot guys....Matt, what exactly is this?" and then add foley rather then real ambience". I've never heard the term foley.
 
I would plan on adding "fake ambience" and sound effects (I'm calling the two of those together "foley") rather then try to get all those sounds at the same time you get dialog. Sometimes this isn't practical, but you'll get the best soundtrack that way.

Foley is all the sounds which sell each scene... and when it's well done you don't even think about it. It used to be that every sound you hear was added later and the foley guy was actually in a soundproof room where he watched the movie on a screen and timed footsteps and books shuffling and other sounds to match what he saw. Then this clean soundtrack was added to the movie... along with seperately recorded dialog and other sound effects... plus of course music.

The best videos still use this approach to an extent... but of course it's EASIEST if you can get as much as possible on location. Normally what that means is proper dialog and some of the actual sounds of the location that slip in.

Even the very best boom mic will hear sounds made by the actors (besides voice) and ambient sounds... As I always say, it's a lot harder to NOT get the sounds you DON'T want from a location then it is TO GET the sounds you DO want. You don't normally need to make any special efforts to get ambient sounds on a shoot... just boom normally and you'll still get ambient sounds.

Before you leave a location you should just record a few minutes of that ambience while everybody's silent... so that if you later need to record somebody saying a line in your bedroom you can cut in the ambience that you purposely recorded apart from dialog.
 
I agree with Matt, but just to throw my $.02 in here...and to reiterate strongly something Matt said (I think it was matt...) don't use the on camera mic. Connect your boom into input 2 and then set both inputs to 2 (behind the LCD). Then, on the level nobs, set one to be at the standard level you want to record, then take one down about a third. This way, since it doesn't sound like you'll have a mixer on set to ride levels for you, you can always have a usable track, even if the dialogue gets loud. Then, at the end, before everyone strikes lights and camera and such, record at least a minute of ambient tone (aka "Room Tone" when done indoors). I usually go for at least a minute and half, since you will have to loop it in editing to layer under your dialogue.

As far as Vegas 5 goes, when you capture, you will get both channels shown in your audio track. After you're done editing, then go through and in places where your primary audio blows out (if it does) the blown out audio and just keep the softer audio (you may still have to adjust levels here). Then, at the very end, remove all of the soft audio from everywhere else, and then remix the audio to LR for the whole thing. It's really easy to do (much easier than I am describing it here...it's late. ;-)

HTH,

Phil
 
I'm gonna take your advice on setting both inputs to 2. Thanks so much and I guess you'll see how it turns out!
 
Late comer to the thread, but I also agree with running your boom into both channels and staggering their levels. If you had and actuall sound person it would be a different story all together.

Just want to add to the Foley question/comment. The term Foley, named after Jack Foley, refers to sound made by or as a result of human movement. Footsteps, cloth movements, finger snaps etc.. Also when you here the pages of a book that some one is going through, when some one picks up or sets something down that kind of thing. Sometimes there is a fine line between effects and foley, depending on who is calling the shots I suppose. Door slams, car sounds and gun shots may fall to a sound designer where as the sound of some one grabbing the door knob, or cocking the gun may be a foley artists job. Sometimes the same person does it all, I actually did some foley recording last night.

Have fun out there. Don't worry about ambiance, if you need it add it, but most likely your dialog will have plenty of ambiance on it, hopefully not too much.

Don't forget room tone!
 
good advice on never using the onboard mic, i'm surprized to ever see anyone on here saying they have or will. If your sound is "ambient" sound that is suposed to match visually you need to record it at the same time obviously. If not, take a wild recording... recording sound when the camera isn't rolling... most cafe scenes the noise in the background was recorded before and the people are just moving their mouths and making no noise except the main actors. Sorry if that was obvious and i didn't need to say it... Foley is faked to match exactly, which is different and more difficult, but often necesary. The other choice is a marantz 201 with an omni directional mic... imported at 44.1 film speed for 24 p timeline or 48 for 30p timeline i believe is how it goes. either way you can convert easilly. a marantz used is very cheap and useful.

RaspyBunk
 
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