Run&Gun
Veteran
Except for the “micro” and 5 lbs part, ~$20K is the ballpark for (used) Amira’s, now. And depending on hours and condition, some can be found into the teens.
First pics and leaked specs of Arri's new Alexa 35
- Thread starter d shay
- Start date
Except for the “micro” and 5 lbs part, ~$20K is the ballpark for (used) Amira’s, now. And depending on hours and condition, some can be found into the teens.
NorBro
Major Contributor
I'm talking a new, shiny $20K ARRI... :happy:
AMIRAs been around $20K for years, and definitely can put an offer on eBay for less. I want one from certified pre-owned but they are still charging a premium for any that come around, even the classics are always around $10K+.
AMIRAs been around $20K for years, and definitely can put an offer on eBay for less. I want one from certified pre-owned but they are still charging a premium for any that come around, even the classics are always around $10K+.
Run&Gun
Veteran
You can send the camera into Arri service and have it “re-certified” ($1K), which then allows you to get a service contract($2450/per year) that covers everything the original warranty did.
ahalpert
Major Contributor
And I want a toilet made out of solid gold
jonpais
Well-known member
The half dozen Encounters videos I managed to watch bored me to tears. Much more interesting to me were the shots made by Mark Toia, who, back in 2013, with the then new Dragon sensor where, in the space of just two days (!) he managed to shoot a variety of subjects, many in harsh, contrasty natural light (surfing, dog racing, car races, the glare off the hood of an automobile, etc.) as well as in the dead of night, trying out various compression ratios, frame rates, underexposure, really pushing the camera to its limits, all the while providing information about ISO and where the highlights and shadows stood in each of the shots. No masking, no power windows, no keying, no noise reduction. By the umpteenth time a scene including windows or a campfire rolled around in one of the Encounters videos, I was ready to tear my hair out. As for great color, I didn’t see it either (random examples of what I consider to be good color would be Netflix’s Criminal, shot on the Venice, or Lupin). As an instance of really pushing the dynamic range of a camera, I could cite The Blacklist.
rob norton
Veteran
Thanks!
Having now watched all of the ENCOUNTERS shorts several times, it's definitely a different look. It seems a lot more real/true and will take some getting used to.
I assume Arri were only prepared to go down this path once this leap in dynamic range had been achieved.
Initially, the short films almost felt underwhelming. However, I just watched the Arri camera showreel 2022 (mix of footage from previous sensors), as well as an alexa mini LF promo and a lot of it seems fake by comparison. Also, after struggling to see any clipped highlights in the Alexa 35 shorts, anything approaching clipping from the LF sensor makes me want to throw up (joke).
I have the feeling this is like a successful apple product where initially people aren't sold in a widespread way, then soon enough it becomes a must have product.
I'm curious if we'll see a further convergence in documentary and film looks. Stylised lighting won't be going anywhere, but whether by force or choice, Directors of Photography will be doing more with less. For a high end documentary, this camera seems like your best friend, especially along with what looks like complete ease of internal audio recording (and hopefully monitoring). I'm interested to see some more extreme stress tests.
I doubt this will be a popular combo but I'd like to try the camera with an EF mount using my canon 24-70.
Grug
Veteran
There's definitely a "through the window" kind of quality to it. But cameras have been so good for so long now, that it's really only at the very extremes that anyone's going to see the differences.
Now that we've actually fully surpassed the latitude of colour negative, it'll be interesting to see if there's actually some kind of uncanny-valley effect that people feel, as their brain triggers that they're seeing things they never have before (though again, that's only going to happen in the absolute extremes - like firelight).
The full electronic control of EF glass through a WCU4 or HI5 is pretty fantastic. I haven't tried it myself yet, but if the functionality is as good as it seems, it'd work just fine on a conventional set. Takes the complexity of lens mapping, and recalibrating FIZ motors out of the equation.
Run&Gun
Veteran
I'm currently waiting on the EF mount for my Amira and told my sales rep that I want the EF mount for the Alexa35, as well. Not really for EF still lenses, but my primes, which are the Canon CN-E's, and are all EF mount, and it wouldn't make sense financially(ironic considering the cost of the camera, huh) to swap the mounts to PL on all six primes or re-buy a set of primes in PL(at least not currently). Especially as so much of my work is "doc"/"sports doc" style with the 25-250 and 17-120, with the primes mostly just being used for interviews.
Run&Gun
Veteran
That's probably a good way to put it. And it's kind of funny, the ordering for this camera kind of played out like an iPhone launch back-in-the-day, relatively speaking.
rob norton
Veteran
We can guarantee an initial trend where every single netflix show will be set in detail city, unless Robert Richardson ASC is shooting a dining scene.
Aren't these extreme situations everywhere though? A lot less "white" (approaching white etc.) means seeing more colours in general, which is doing a huge amount of work. I know this sounds like I'm saying dynamic range is good and stating the obvious, but it's a slightly different angle to think of eliminating white as being just as important as preserving detail.
E.g. hair/table on the LF vs. (woman's) hair on the 35:
This sounds amazing. What's the consensus re pulling focus with stills lenses? The Arri EF mount FAQ states:
"We recommend against professional focus pulling with still photo EF mount lenses with internal focus motors. While rudimentary control of the focus motor of most still photo EF mount lenses is possible with ARRI ECS hand units to set a focus distance, actual focus pulling does not work so well. The accuracy and repeatability of focus marks as well as the smoothness of the focus lens ring motion do not match what is possible with external lens motors and vary greatly from lens to lens."
But then Sean acts like it'd be fine - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ma_rc8mJs_s&t=269s
It sounds completely doable despite Arri's warning...
Sounds awesome. The 25-250 with alexa 35 is going to make a pretty ridiculous combo!
I guess for accuracy, only a minority will actually need convincing because widespread acceptance is already happening before release.
ahalpert
Major Contributor
Yes but you can always blow it back out in post, no? So it's really just about having more options? But I agree that it will likely spawn a fashion trend
Run&Gun
Veteran
Slight detour, but the 25-250 has quickly become my favorite lens. As much as I'm a wide angle junkie(and LOVE my B4 4.5's), this lens is just so versatile and badass. One of my clients that I shoot a lot for with their gear(they have mostly Amira's and a couple miniLF's), still hires me probably 75%-80% of the time with my glass and the bulk of that is usually hiring me with my 25-250.
rob norton
Veteran
Yeah it's ultimately about more choice to take the image whichever direction you want. For the next few years though, surely the vast majority will keep details rather than let them go. Or if in camera, like Charles said, take even more care to blow out windows - the bigger budgets, once reserved for preserving details, now go towards blowing out the windows!!??
With still photography though, I often throw away lots of information because I like the look. I think part of it came from absolutely hating those sickly sweet HDR images from amateur photographers.
That's great to hear the lens has seen so much use. We need to see some tests at some point if you go ahead with the new camera.
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Izod Foldger
Member
Charge $3k per day for camera with media, batteries and tripod, around $10k average day rate with camera, labor and other equipment, more on multi-cam shoots. Work 10 days, $100k, camera is paid off, then profit for next 5-10 years until camera becomes outdated (around the time the Sony Venice 7 comes out). Pretty low risk investment for me.
I’d expect based on the many preorders that the Sharegrid rate will go low. I’m seeing Mini LF’s as low as $1200 per day locally. Fortunately as a freelance DP who doesn’t dry hire rent out my cameras my clients are hiring more than just a camera, so I set my rates more so based on the price of the equipment rather than the local going rental rate, and if a client doesn’t like the rate I charge for gear, they can try to piecemeal on Sharegrid with a likely less experienced DP while I go off and make $10k from a different client or sit at home and get caught up on the latest season of Stranger Things. I think for people just hoping to make money on Sharegrid it’s more of a risky investment.
I think Arri knocked it out of the park with this camera. Previous Arri literature had said they were coming out with a camera (sensor) “as good or better” than the original, just with at least 4K resolution, but then they really stepped up the game with “or better” and gave us better low light, better colors, better dynamic range, a bit more than 4K, and some other features like the rigid B-mount and mini XLR with pre-amps made in heaven, and upon seeing all these upgrades I was sold on buying it.
Is this now the best camera in existence? Alexa 65 is higher resolution, more ability to get shallow depth of field (which can also be a hindrance), but lower dynamic range, inferior colors, not as good in low light, much heavier and twice the power draw. If I was DPing the next Avengers, I’m not so sure the Alexa 65 is actually a better camera than the Alexa 35, so would be likely to choose the Alexa 35. The Venice seemed to be just about catching up to Arri’s image, not quite there, and now is left in the dust by Arri’s new camera.
And that’s exciting, and will be exciting to own. I also produce so want to have the best camera available for my projects. I actually think a single camera manufacturer having an indisputably best camera makes it easier for owner/operators. It’s always frustrating to deal with as I did today a client saying, “Even though you own a bunch of high end cameras, can you rent the specific camera we want since you don’t have it so we can match our other footage?” Better to get back the Betacam days of one industry standard expensive camera and a nice day rate to go with it rather than a bajillion camera choices and your camera(s) constantly being hit or miss in terms of what various clients want.
Good chance I’ll get a second Alexa 35 within a year or two. Will see how well business goes with it, but I imagine it will go well and I do a lot of multi camera shoots so need matching cameras, plus I like being able to charge $6k just in two camera rental fees in a day. I’m shooting a Netflix original doc next week and my current Arri cameras aren’t Netflix approved, so, wish I had two Alexa 35s for it.
AbelCine was pitching me on the Anton Bauer mount batteries for the Alexa 35 so then you can use them on your other cameras and lights, but I’ve decided I’m sold on B-mount. I like the rigidity and ability to control the camera by holding onto the battery. Never been a fan of the jiggling of the AB mount. There’s also a B-mount to Anton Bauer mount adapter so you can still use your B-mount batteries on AB mount cameras and lights. I see they’ve got a shark fin for B-mount too which is nice.
Bebop has the hot swap battery which I plan to get. I wonder if it stays fully charged and uses the battery on the back of it first before it starts depleting, and if so, if it does that with other camera manufacture batteries. I like the digital readout of the SWIT batteries and ability to charge them via USB-C such as an Apple laptop charger, so if they work well on the Bebop mount I’d like to get SWIT 290w batteries and Bebop 86w hotswap batteries. Swit also has a hotswap setup but it only lasts a couple or few minutes. SXW b-mount batteries missed the ball as their highest wattage is a measly 150w.
One concern I’ve got is the lack of p-tap output; as far as I saw the audio module doesn’t have a p-tap output. The SWIT hotswap I believe does and so does the Arri Power module, but I prefer the Bebop hotswap and the audio module. I suppose I could just keep the p-tap (and p-tap splitter) plugged into the Bebop hotswap battery, but I’m guessing that will deplete it unless the second battery is actively charging it or passing through power. I wish the audio module had a p-tap output, but don’t think I saw it listed. I wonder if there is a cable to convert the other power outputs on the Alexa 35 to p-tap, or if I can get lemo cables for all my accessories and if a lemo splitter is a thing.
…Apparently there are Lemo splitters and this device would give me all the p-tap I need from the Lemo power output.
https://rencherindustries.com/produc...pr_seq=uniform
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rob norton
Veteran
I saw the camera last night. The minimal shoulder pad felt great. I was surprised the pots on the audio module don't have hard stops.
I picked up an arri bottle opener, which I plan on selling to norbro.
I picked up an arri bottle opener, which I plan on selling to norbro.
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