Firewire to Timecode converter

Ted Spencer

Ted Spencer

Veteran
I just wrote and received a reply from a gentleman named Ben Fisher:

ben@fisher-robotics.com

at this company:

http://www.fisher-robotics.com/

They make a $250 product called the Timetool which can derive an audio time code track (LTC) from the LANC output of a Sony or Canon DV camcorder. In response to my letter about a similar Firewire to LTC converter that could do the same for a DVX or HVX, I was told that they have a prototype for such a device, but are unsure if there's enough of a market to justify its production. I replied that I believe there is, and that readers of this group might be especially interested.

Incidentally, there is another device that (apparently) can do this is: the Miranda DV BRIDGE Pro. I'm not sure whether it supports 24 fps (and it does do a few other things), but it costs a whopping $1850:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...DVBRIDGEPRO_DV_BRIDGE_Pro_Bi_directional.html

I'd invite anyone as intrigued as I am by Mr. Fisher's Firewire prototype to visit their site (which only shows the LANC product), and to send Mr. Fisher an email expressing your interest in seeing it offered for sale.

In case it isn't clear to everyone reading this, a device like this would enable precise time sychronization between the DVX or HVX (or any Firewire equipped camcorder) and any LTC chase-capable device; most particularly of interest here, to an external audio recorder. Any recorder capable of locking to LTC (aka "SMPTE" or "audio time code") and recording in BWAV format could produce files that would import directly into NLEs like FCP, which could then be frame-accurately synced to the clip's video using their embedded, matching time code numbers. A Mac laptop with Boom Recorder software and a MOTU audio interface would do it. It's a one-step solution, and it would eliminate the need to use tedious, time-consuming visual methods like slate claps to line up externally generated audio tracks.

Note: their current, LANC product only supports 29.97 and 25 frame rates, which while fine for some users, falls short for us 24p-ers here in the US. Obviously, the Firewire version would need to support 24 (23.98) fps as well. Evidently that shouldn't represent too much of an obstacle.

To me, something like this would be a godsend. Anyone else want to help convince the guy to manufacture it?
 
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Fisher has changed the name of company again? I can't say anything about his products, when people get them they seem to work fine, but he is infamous for...well search RAMPS for "Zeitx" (his old company).

From what I have heard the Lanc Lump worked great. Hopefully he changed his company name to reflect a change in company practices.

Cheers
 
Here's some more info from Ben Fisher regarding the converter, posted here with his permission:

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On Nov 26, 2007, at 3:16 PM, Ben Fisher / Fisher Robotics wrote:

I'm not sure how many items we would need to justify it (lets guess - 50pcs initially), some degree of pre-order would probably be necessary - I wouldn't want to build 100 units and find no customers! A lot of the IC's involved are only available in large qty's and bulk packs.

If people are interested we would put up a refundable 50% deposit on the website and if we get 50 orders we go for it - delivery in about 8 weeks (early Feb08). Unit would be around $350 and look like a bigger version of the TimeTool 'L', will use 2xAA or 2xAAA cells. Probably have two 1394 ports (4 pin and 6 pin) and a thru function, a USB port and support for 24p-60p (df & ndf). Configuration through buttons or dip switch, cross-jam ability & LED's. Free software upgrades for life etc... And a MAC version of the upgrader!

cheers,

B

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Why is it so.. so.. very important that the audio recorder TC match the video cam TC???
 
BRH said:
Why is it so.. so.. very important that the audio recorder TC match the video cam TC???
Click to expand...

Because, at least in FCP (and other NLE's as well I'm sure) it makes it possible, with BWAV (time-stamped) audio, to sync the video and separately recorded audio together instantly, automatically, by merging the clips, after which they'll stay stuck together, in perfect sync.

Large amounts of material could be resynced in a tiny fraction of the time it would take to do it visually using a slate clap or other means of lining up the waveforms visually. If many channels of audio were captured on the set, the benefits would multiply accordingly.
 
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Keep in mind that if you want it for the DVX, that's one thing, but if you want it to be compatible with the HVX that's a whole 'nother can of worms. He'd have to support decoding all four of the HVX's firewire data streams (DV, DVCPRO, DVCPRO50, and DVCPRO-HD in both its flavors).
 
Barry_Green said:
Keep in mind that if you want it for the DVX, that's one thing, but if you want it to be compatible with the HVX that's a whole 'nother can of worms. He'd have to support decoding all four of the HVX's firewire data streams (DV, DVCPRO, DVCPRO50, and DVCPRO-HD in both its flavors).
Click to expand...

Right, well, I did mention to him that I was referring specifically to the HVX200 and its HD rates of 720p and 1080p. There was no indication in his reply that that was a deal-breaker, and he does mention the very high data rates.

It also occurred to me that using variable frame rates could throw another monkey wrench into the plan. Do you know what the HVX's firewire port outputs timecode-wise when variable rates are being used?

Of course, audio could be thought of as entirely irrelevant in variable rate shots...
 
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Ted Spencer said:
Here's some more info from Ben Fisher regarding the converter, posted here with his permission:

---------------------

On Nov 26, 2007, at 3:16 PM, Ben Fisher / Fisher Robotics wrote:

I'm not sure how many items we would need to justify it (lets guess - 50pcs initially), some degree of pre-order would probably be necessary - I wouldn't want to build 100 units and find no customers! A lot of the IC's involved are only available in large qty's and bulk packs.

If people are interested we would put up a refundable 50% deposit on the website and if we get 50 orders we go for it - delivery in about 8 weeks (early Feb08). Unit would be around $350 and look like a bigger version of the TimeTool 'L', will use 2xAA or 2xAAA cells. Probably have two 1394 ports (4 pin and 6 pin) and a thru function, a USB port and support for 24p-60p (df & ndf). Configuration through buttons or dip switch, cross-jam ability & LED's. Free software upgrades for life etc... And a MAC version of the upgrader!

cheers,

B

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Click to expand...

That sounds like the same old Ben. Do not send this guy one penny unless he promises a tracking number for your product within 48 hours.


http://www.steadiforum.com/showthread.php?t=975

http://www.steadiforum.com/showthread.php?p=2843

http://www.steadiforum.com/showthread.php?t=505


Again, please read through RAMPS discussion of this this guy's business practices. He has a habit of taking money and not deliverying a product. Every thread on this guy leads to another one telling of non-delivered product.

Caveat emptor!!!!!
 
Oh well...

Not much sense in sending a lot of upfront money to a guy with a history of "take it and run". Thanks for the heads-up.

It sure would be nice if *someone* made a simple LTC-from-Firewire extractor for an affordable price. I'd buy one in a heartbeat. If Mr. Fisher decides to go ahead and build it on his own dime, maybe I'll get my wish.

It's still not clear to me BTW whether the Miranda DV Bridge Pro will work with DCVPROHD codecs. It appears that it might not.
 
In the past, audio TC never matched video tape TC, which never match film Keycode.... get over it.
 
Ive bought 2 Timetools and have been in contact with Ben directly.

I was working on a job where (as usual) the budget was limited and the production company wanted to use 8 channels of audio but shoot onto Sony Z1. I decided the best way was to record onto the sound devices 788t 8 channel HDD. we had 2 crews each with 7 radio mics and boom and recording onto mini dv. We outputted the timecode from the sonys using Bens Time tool syncing the Hard drive recorders from the cameras. We were wired thru the usual umbilical with an extra feed for the timecode (Cable came from Black Box Video in the uk) This worked really well and as it was a fly on the wall documentary with very long days it eased things slightly nowing that there shouldnt be any major sync issues in post. Anyway I guess I have a couple of replies to the above post. Firstly the Time tool worked great at outputting timecode from the camera. A really nice piece of kit to have in any video professionals bag.
But secondly I was really impressed at Fisher robotics and the service that they and in particular Ben provided. My previous delings with ben was with Zeitx and he has been much maligned in foums by his involvement with that company. I can only comment on my own experiences with Zeitx having paid for a DigiSlate that never arrived but it is important to note that I got refunded with no problems.
We all know the perils of the business world and we should give entrpenuers like Ben a clap on the back for picking themselves up and starting over again. I really believe Bens new venture with Fisher Robotics will be a success and I hope he will continue to develope solutions for the video industry long into the future.
 
I would absolutely LOVE to have this product, as I'm shooting a TV show with multiple audio and video timecodes. Right now, it's going to be a nightmare in post to try and sync up everything.
 
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