Finding The Right Clients *Music Videos*

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epiktim

Member
Not sure where this thread goes, so I took a good guess.

I'm hoping to slowly break into the "live music video" industry in my local area. I have no aspirations of making this my income, or even a supplemental income, rather; a hobby that pays enough to justify doing it.

I have (3) hv20's, and I am considering adding a 4th to gain more angles.

Is there anybody here that does this type of thing with regularity that could shed some light on the business side of things? How do you find bands willing to pay a few hundred dollars for a live video? Do you advertise? Business cards, t-shirts, website....etc? Thanks for any and all input.

Here's my first project (I realize I have much to improve upon)

http://www.vimeo.com/2257312
 
you'll find it's not real hard to work for nothin'.
My favorite bands and I use to just bring the camera to various gigs and on the road with us.
Simple enough. If you're part of the band, few venues will have a problem with the camera. We're, of course, in the friend-making business so the manager and the head bouncer dude are the first two I make buddies with at any venue. I need green lights all night lng and those are aquired the first 30 seconds you enter a building. If there is a head sound guy, you wanna buy him a beer as well. You have enough gear you can plug into his board and theres your live audio. I cut to CDs. I seldom get more than one live take of the song I'm cutting to. Always works out fine.
I only have one example online:
http://grinnerhester.com/ColinGilmore.wmv
Colin knew I was shooting that night and told the manager. I had freedom to get anywhere but the crowd was dead so I stayed around the apron. Got one take of the song, cut it to the CD and used cutaways from other songs as cutaways.
Went on the road recently with Beatle Bob:
http://grinnerhester.com/BeatleBob.html
We shot over 50 bands in 4 daze, including crashing the Country Music Hall of Fame and the Ryman Theatre with no proper press pass at all. Just a matter of looking like ya belong there. Walked backstage anywhere I liked by asking the biggest security guards to give me room.
There is an art to free reign and it's not asking for it.
 
epiktim said:
I have (3) hv20's, and I am considering adding a 4th to gain more angles.

Is there anybody here that does this type of thing with regularity that could shed some light on the business side of things? How do you find bands willing to pay a few hundred dollars for a live video? Do you advertise? Business cards, t-shirts, website....etc? Thanks for any and all input.
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Hello epiktim,

Myspace is a good place to find bands in your area. Check out the local clubs and see who plays regularly, and contact them on Myspace, or facebook. Your own myspace page is also a good place to put demo reels, clips, etc. Then add local bands as friends and network through messags/email. Most bands relish the idea of
having someone videotape them. Live performances, or music videos, or a combination. You can also find a local club with good traffic, and work a joint-promotional deal.

As for paperwork at a concert shoot, we normally post a notice at the entrance to the club stating that filming is taking place and your entry constitutes consent, etc. We also get model releases from each of the band members, and a venue release from the owner of the establishment (saying we can enter his property and film, etc.) You have other legal requirements, of course, depending on what you are going to do with the video. (Don't forget the legal quagmire: sync rights, mechanical rights, etc.)

Sometimes the band makes all the arrangements, sometimes we do. I agree with grinner that it's best to "make nice" with the people who are in charge, and they will usually be happy to have you there. Give them a copy of the finished product if you can, and add the venue name in the title block (recorded live at so-and-so).

A couple more thoughts come to mind based on our experiences:
1. One camera operator for each camera. We tried to set up an unmaned camera and, unless you can put it out of the way, you'll worry about it all night.
2. If you're going to set up a crane or other apparatus, try to visit the venue first. We've relied on someone else's opinion ("Yeah, it'll fit) only to be disappointed.
3. Recording sound is another issue. I agree with grinner about hooking in to the sound guy's board. Have a backup plan if the audio is critical in case the sound guy drops the ball. Set up an external mic and run it to the camera. Cut it to a CD if you can. Some (techno) bands lean more to the programmed music, and their performances are timed to their recorded tracks - that's even easier.
4. Check for lighting probs. Once, we found a great spot near the dance floor, set up a crane, and didn't notice that the sound guy was running a huge spotlight that cast a nice batman-like shadow of our crane against the back wall of the stage.
5. Shoot some footage before the crowds arrive or at a band dress rehearsal/warm up session. You can sometimes get the band to play the target song a couple of times and just get close ups. Then get crowd shots later.

HTH (I know I rambled on.)
-Russell
 
I've tried to do live videos here in Atlanta, and you find real quick that bands don't have money, even a couple hundred bucks for a video. It's even harder in this economy, labels are being even tighter with money. It looks like you're doing smaller club type shows, which you may find that some local bands are wanting live footage, but once again, they probably don't have the money for it to be worth your while.

Even though your video looks really good, showing up with HV20's may not win you any new bands. Size does matter even if the final product looks good. I've put live videos on the shelf unless a band is serious and wants to spend the time and money to do a professional looking video. The club stuff is fun if you're just doing it as a hobby, I just don't know how consistent the money will be.

As far as getting your name out there, myspace is a good way, go to rehearsal spaces and put up flyers. You can get those 4X6 club cards for really cheap and leave those at clubs. Just put your flyers/cards in as many places as possible and hope someone has a dream and pockets deep enough to pay you.

good luck,
Stussey
 
Stussey said:
...and you find real quick that bands don't have money, even a couple hundred bucks for a video.
Click to expand...

I agree with Stussey on this. And this is the majority of bands I see in my area.

The bands I see fall in to one of these categories:

1) They are playing local clubs, have no money, and can't afford to pay for videos. They usually don't have a professionally-produced (or at least professionally replicated CD). I would work with these guys for practice, or if they're friends, etc. Sometimes they can kick in a few bucks.

2) They are signed with a legit label of some kind. Perfect, if you can get in with them, but they are outside my market, generally. And they usually have "people."

3) Up-and-coming band with some financing behind them. They don't make tons of money, but they're playing and travelling, and they'll pay for quality work, and will be happy to have someone who can help them with a lot of different things like promotional posters, web page design, etc. I think these groups are found in the larger markets, particularly music-oriented cities (like Nashville, for us.)

Regards,
Russell
 
Thanks guys, your information has been extremely insightful thus far.

My target market is bands that are looking to "make it." If a 'for fun' band approaches me and is willing to pay for a quality video, I obviously won't turn them down.

I just don't see that happening. I'm marketing myself in the hopes of reaching the intermediate market: those who don't yet have huge deals/labels, but are on the verge and need that extra "oomph" on their band's website to generate interest, or need a quality DVD to sell to fans at shows. That "oomph" is a music video.

That being said, I've searched for a while with no results......Where are studies that prove that video is a stronger marketing tactic than audio alone? IE, Someone is more likely to check out your website if you have a video on the front page....I know these studies exist but I can't locate them.
 
epiktim said:
Where are studies that prove that video is a stronger marketing tactic than audio alone?
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Haven't seen any studies on that. But it certainly sounds like a reasonable assumption. (or at least a commonly-held belief.) Look in the television ad market - somewhere, a television ad agency/industry group has put together some statistics to sell TV spots and compete with radio.

Also, we have at least one client who has an electronic press kit (EPK) that he sends out to vendors, venues, and other booking agents. Kind of a "demo reel" for his band. It's not a full music video, but clips of past performances. A band can provide clips and CD-audio, and you shoot additional footage to put together one of these EPKs. It can be cheaper and less time-consuming than a full live concert or music video. You can even provide a value-added service by re-packaging your EPK with his CD (or sample tracks) in a digi-pak from discmakers (or similiar.)
 
epiktim said:
My target market is bands that are looking to "make it."
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A couple more thoughts:

Almost (i.e., >95%) every band I've run across wants to "make it." The band "type" that you've already identified as your target group will already know that video is important. You probably wont need to sell them on the idea. The one's I've encountered in that category certainly knew they needed video marketing.

Regards,
Russell
 
rfox, you're right about bands knowing about using video and also the internet for promotion.

epiktim, you say you're doing this as a paid hobby and want to make enough money to justify it. Being that you're wanting to make a couple hundred $ per video, I'd think that the bands would be wanting to have someone who was a professional to do their video. I'm not knocking you or saying you're not professional, but 1 way to look at is that you're taking a paycheck away from someone who is trying to make a living doing video. Plus, you even said it yourself, you have plenty to work on, so trying to make money right from the get go might be a little premature. As far as a 'live music video' industry. There simply isn't one. I do focus most of my work on music type videos, and it's not easy. When I first started out, I was doing cheap live videos and even then didn't get much demand. But I also do music videos, EPK's, DVD's and whatever else. Are you just filming or are you talking about a whole DVD package?

Besides the economy, doing small live video type shows like this is a hard sell, except for local bands. Most bands that are signed(intermediate), if they're going to do a live video, they're going to want at least 6 cameras, board mix, pre/post show footage, extras, etc. But they also want 6 pro cameras for the show, and the labels are willing to pay for it. 3-4 camera stuff, that's new bands and locals, and even then they may not have the money. All you can do is keep your name out there and maybe somebody will bite.

I wish you luck.
 
I didn't explain myself clearly, my apologies to everyone.....

I'm looking for the unsigned bands who don't have any record deal or anything, that are trying to "make it." There is no one near me that offers video production services, and I think low-budget concert productions is a market need that I could meet. I don't intend to steal customers from anyone's video business......because there is no video business around to steal from.

The bands I will target are from 15-30 in age, probably only get paid $2-5 hundred per show, and are looking for a sub-$500 video to jumpstart their marketing effforts.

I don't claim to offer the bells and whistles of a $20,000 video. However, I aim to produce the best sub-$500 video I can possibly produce with the tools I have.

Does anyone have any tips for getting your name out on a shoestring budget?
 
I don't know if where you are that unsigned bands get $200-$500/show, but here and most places I know, bands are lucky to get paid more than maybe gas money or a bar tab. That's why there aren't more people doing these types of videos. It's one reason why I've really abandoned doing live videos altogether.

rfox and I have both suggested ways to get your name out there in previous posts. Myspace, facebook, message boards any other internet sites that bands go to. Go to the clubs with flyers/cards, most clubs have places that you can either post or leave them. It's just like any other business, you have to get your name out there.

good luck
 
epiktim said:
There is no one near me that offers video production services, and I think low-budget concert productions is a market need that I could meet.

...[bands] looking for a sub-$500 video to jumpstart their marketing effforts.

Does anyone have any tips for getting your name out on a shoestring budget?
Click to expand...

I think what you are describing *is* workable. (Not enriching, maybe, but workable :)

1.) Set up a Myspace account. Put up a demo reel or some clips from performances. Add information about the services you want to provide.
2.) Start searching myspace for local bands, and add them as friends.
3.) Make up a good-looking flyer with your contact info/myspace url, saying something like "Does your band need a music video". Distribute these flyers to
local clubs/bars and performance venues, and equipment suppliers (consignment shops, guitar shops.) Maybe attend a couple of concerts and do a meet-and-greet with the talent.

Less than $30 (copies) for promotion, and I think you will have someone take you up on it.

I've seens bands just like the ones you describe, and they are/were willing to pay several hundred dollars. You'll just have to decide if taking 3 or 4 cameras to a venue, setting up, videotaping, and editing will be profitable for the manhours you'll put in.

Best Regards,
Russell
 
I f I were you, I wouldn shoot the concerts..

Get an DOF adapter ( or make one ) and take one (or even better two ) HV30 and make them the music-video, MTV style..

You can charge them at least 600$ for two days shooting and editing you will perform.
If there is three members of the band, everybody will dip 200$, and they will have a music video as they should.

Than have a rule by yourself, that you spend maksimum 1/3rd of budget on expences ( wallpapers background, rentals ) and another 2/3 it goes to your pocket.

Don't be shy to charge them your knowledge, time and equipment...And let them know that they can not get the same quality video for 600$ as for 1.500$

Maybe you can make the first video for free ( or 200$ .. to cover expences ), just to have a refence of your work, therefore you can show that to the other bands..

:beer:
 
Stussey said:
I've tried to do live videos here in Atlanta, and you find real quick that bands don't have money, even a couple hundred bucks for a video. It's even harder in this economy, labels are being even tighter with money. It looks like you're doing smaller club type shows, which you may find that some local bands are wanting live footage, but once again, they probably don't have the money for it to be worth your while.

Even though your video looks really good, showing up with HV20's may not win you any new bands. Size does matter even if the final product looks good. I've put live videos on the shelf unless a band is serious and wants to spend the time and money to do a professional looking video. The club stuff is fun if you're just doing it as a hobby, I just don't know how consistent the money will be.

As far as getting your name out there, myspace is a good way, go to rehearsal spaces and put up flyers. You can get those 4X6 club cards for really cheap and leave those at clubs. Just put your flyers/cards in as many places as possible and hope someone has a dream and pockets deep enough to pay you.

good luck,
Stussey
Click to expand...

Yeah getting bands to pay any money is so ridiculously hard. Sometimes, if you're doing a free video for them, they'll put some of their own money into making it a better free video, like pay for a location that's better, or pay to make some props or something, but honestly getting paid for the video as a whole is so tough.

As for live videos, I've never actually done one, but my former business partner shot a live concert that I went along to see and help out where I could. He had a really professional setup for this, though, as he knew he'd be making the concert into a DVD to sell (last I heard they were over 5,000 DVDs sold already). They had 7 cameras filming at once, two on jibs, five others on tripods or handheld, well positioned, it was very well done. Looks fantastic for a live concert especially, he really did it right.

I think cutting a video with anything less than 10 takes is so hard, I usually shoot two cameras, numerous run throughs, so my goal now is about 18 to 22 full takes of the song, which means two cameras, ten plays is 20 takes, for instance. On a one-camera shoot, like something really low budget, I want 12 if I can get it, even though that's asking a lot of the band to keep on going, but it's hard to get more than that. Which is why two cameras is so valuable.

Honestly though I think you'd have better success making money on music videos the way you are doing them, live shoots, than I will with "real" music videos, like actual full productions. I mean think about it, you have the location, the band will perform at a show, where you can go check out and setup your equipment, and you won't have a billion takes to edit, so you won't need to spend forever doing it. You could conceivably invest 8 hours into the project and have a music video cut. Maybe 10 hours. Not including finding the bands and whatnot. But at that rate if someone would pay you $300 to $400, it wouldn't be good money at all, but it wouldn't be horrible either. And bands do have that kind of money usually, not much more. For me, I need $5,000 to get off my couch and even think about making a music video. I'll have to hire a crew, I have to get food, I have to put a ton of time into pre-production, editing will be a 30 hour ordeal if I'm lucky, if not 60. Basically for me it involves using $75,000 in equipment or so and a crew of 7-8 at minimum, and 100-150 hours of my time perhaps.

I don't have the same indie mentality as some people obviously but if you ask me, $5,000 for a music video is nothing. If a label offered me that much money I would only do it if I thought there would be better opportunities in the future. If they told me I'd get more $5,000 videos, I'd say honestly no thanks, just not interested. I will not make any money from that.

My last music the band put a lot of work into it, they made props, wardrobe, got extras, took a lot of headaches off my end, but it was still 75 hours of work easily and cost $3,000, not including the equipment I already own so that was free, but had I been charging to rent that equipment to someone else, for instance, I would have wanted $1,200 for that much equipment for a day. So if I had gotten $5,000, I'd have made $2,000 for 75 hours of my time and that much equipment? Bleh, no thanks.

I don't have the mentality of "oh a music video lolomg you can shoot that with one person!" No, you really can't. If you want a professional, MTV quality video you need a lot of people involved. At minimum I want DP / A camera, B camera, hair/makeup artist, 1st A.C., 1st A.D., grip, gaffer, swing, P2 loader, and myself. On a decent budget I want that plus UPM, another grip at least, a few PAs, a production designer and set dresser, probably a few actors, might need extras, etc.
 
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Well I am definitely not in the "professional airing on MTV next week" category of music video producers. My target is the low-end market, and that is what I will stick to. Hopefully it works out, this has all been great advice thus far.

I will be sure to post another video as soon as I film my next project.
 
epiktim said:
Well I am definitely not in the "professional airing on MTV next week" category of music video producers. My target is the low-end market, and that is what I will stick to. Hopefully it works out, this has all been great advice thus far.

I will be sure to post another video as soon as I film my next project.
Click to expand...

Yeah I think you're better off shooting for that probably. I wish I could find some way to make music videos and make a good living doing it, because they are so much fun, but I missed that boat by about 7-8 years ;)

In my ideal world, I would get to direct maybe 2-3 music videos a year throughout my career, and while I wouldn't make much money they'd be fun and the budgets would be good enough to make great work. Something like at least $15,000 budgets, where I'd get to take home maybe $2,000 to $3,000 for my time and equipment, and each one would take me about 2-3 weeks to pull off. That'd be a lot of fun. But so far, I've talked to so many bands that can't even pay $1,000 total that I realized after a while of that I need to focus my time and energy on record labels and getting some signed artists, because otherwise there's no money in it.

Also while I find music videos fun, the idea of learning to shoot my own videos, edit them, and be a one-man show doing sub-par no-budget music videos is not appealing to me. It's only fun when I have the budget to do something cool, which costs at least in the $7,000 range and higher if I'm going to make any money at all, even $1,000.
 
you too will find just getting out there and doing it will open doors.

I wanted to be a racecar driver when I was a kid. Didn't dawn on me till I was 35 to start entering events out at the track.
What I'm saying is the first step in anything more often than not is to just do it.
You'll not get hired to make a music video sitting at home. When your out shooting one, people will approach you and you'll be around the ones you need to approach.
Again, people dig free videos. Go make some.
 
As a business model, trying to get low-end bands to pay you anything is not very practical. You would be trying to squeeze blood from a turnip as the old saying goes.

If you think about this logically, you should be trying to get work from clients who are recession-proof, have high incomes and are willing to spend the money to highlight themselves and their egos. Trying to eke out a living from people who have no money for the most part is a losing proposition and IMHO, you are probably wasting valuable time doing it.

If more people approached video production as a business, rather than an artistic passion, they would be much more successful at it. Sure you have to passionate about what you do but just doing something because you like it is a recipe for having to wait tables or bar tend to make ends meet.

Most of the people I know in this business who are successful at it approach it purely as a business. granted by doing something they enjoy. I used to have a lot of high-end corporate clients and after a few years, I realized that a lot of the extra production values (shooting 35mm film over video, custom scores from composers versus library music, fancy high-concept motion graphics, stunts, explosions, etc.) that I was including, the clients appreciated but didn't really care about. I could have made so much more profit if I would have just met instead of highly exceeded my client's expectations. I was doing all of the fancy stuff for me. Honestly, for the most part, it was a waste of money for my appeasing my ego. A smart business person could have made a LOT more money with those projects than I ever did. I did at least learn from my mistakes though.

Go for clients who have money to pay you. Have a sound business plan. The gear to do this business, while the costs have come down, is still relatively expensive. Why spend tens of thousands of dollars on cameras, lighting, audio, editing gear to work hard and give away your talents and skills for pennies on the dollar? Video production is one of the most gear intensive businesses you can be in, all of the gear is expensive and it almost worthless a year after you buy it. Unless you are making enough money to pay it off in under a year, you are in the wrong business IMHO.

Dan
 
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