Final Mix Setup

timapter

timapter

Veteran
Hey everyone,

Im looking at setting up a studio system for final mix for television, and was just wondering what gear is going to be needed to have a PRO system.

Currently, I have the following. Let me know whats good, and what I should replace, or more importantly, what I just dont have:

Computer:
Pentium 4 2.6Ghz
1024 Mb RAM
Twin 80 Gb Hard drives
21 inch Silicone Graphics Monitor
External Television system - 2 Monitors capable of playing back the video.

Recorder:
M-Audio Firewire 410 Firewire interface
Nuendo 3.0 with various plugins.

Monitoring:
2 x Samson Resolv 80a monitors
2 x Sets of Sennheiser HD212pro headphones

Control:
Tascam US428 Unit for USB Faders, and Transport.

Microphones:
1 x Samson CO8 (I think) Condenser (Multipattern).
1 x Leem Cardioid Condenser
1 x Shure SM57



Is this a workable system? The first weak point that springs to mind are the microphones: What a great voice over microphone at a realistic price? (I.e less than 1k)
 
For truly professional quality I would ditch the Samson monitors and go with a set of Mackies...

You might also want to look into a better audio interface down the road, but the FW410 should do well to get you started. I also agree about better mics. You can do better than Rode, but not for the price, I consider them a real bargain. Also you if you're going to be doing a lot of voice over work, I would look into a decent preamp/channel strip like an Avalon.

Other than that you're looking good. Be sure to get some good, heavy speaker stands and enough Auralex foam to tune your workspace.

Your also going to want at least one of the harddrives to be about twice the size and some offline storage.

Matt
 
Second the comment on monitors. Software today is so capable and affordable, but good quality mics and flat response monitors haven't come down at all. Meyer HD1's are an industry standard, but many of the sub-$1k monitors are also pretty nice. Go for self powered, you won't regret it. Hope this helps.
 
Wait a sec...

You said mixing. So are you mixing or wanting to do a bunch of stuff AND mix. If that's the case, then this is what I'd go with.

Pro Tools TDM (HD3)...fully loaded
Power Mac G5
Waves Diamond bundle
2 x 21 inch Apple cinema Display
Digidesign D-Command
5 x Mackie HR824's
1 x Mackie 12" sub
42" LCD monitor/tv for picture
Canopus ADVC100

This is just a small "in the apartment/basement" setup. If you are on a real mix stage, that's a whole other ball game.

I would talk with Keycode Media or RSPE. They do this stuff all the time for people, and can get you really dialed in.

-Dave
 
I agree with most of what Dave said, except I think Nuendo 3 is Uber Powerful and run on a powerful enough PC would do the trick.

That said, Dave's list would certainly put you into a basic professional set up.
 
How is Nuendo 3? I haven't used it yet. I have Nuendo 2 here on my work computer, and I have Pro Tools at home. I prefer Pro Tools, but I have heard a lot of cool things about Nuendo 3.

-Dave
 
It's insane. I love it myself but it's a completely native system (unless of course you add some hardware processors like a UAD-1). But you know, it's like comparing FCP and Vegas. They both do the same exact stuff, it's just what you like to use. One of the things I like about Nuendo is it's one of the few cross-platform tools left. So I can work on a file on my Mac and send it to Hudson who can work on it on a PC. That's cool for this type of stuff. Protools is still king, but I think that has as much to do with installed userbase as it does reliability. Of course a closed hardware based system is also going to be more reliable. But I don't like ProTools LE. A full protools rig like you described? Can't be beat. But the scaled down protools, to me at least, is far less powerful than even say Logic or Cubase SX.

More than a couple of films have been mixed on a Nuendo based system. If I were trying to get pro results on a budget, it would be hard to overlook it. If money was no concern, I would go with a full protools rig, if only for compatibility issues.

Matt
 
That's good to know. I know a bunch of people making the switch from PT to Nuendo, and a lot of people that have been using it for years and love it. I have heard a lot of good things about Nuendo. I'd love to give it a good demo, but I don't know any dealers that actually have it set up where I can use it.

-Dave
 
I know many who have switched. Well, actually that's not true, I don't know anyone who "switched". But I do know dedicated ProTools users that went to Nuendo when they had to set up a new (or their own) studio. For the price of a G5 (or high-end PC) and 2K for the software you have a basic system competitive with a PTHD rig. That's a HUGE savings...
 
I know for a FACT that Nuendo is a really competitive system for ProTools! Ive seen it used on feature films here in South Africa... Basically, on the low to medium end, its SO much cheaper, and with all the spare cash you can buy some of the best hardware/software toys around to supplement Nuendo. To me, its the open-source to Protools' Microsoft.

Now, back to my setup: Unfortunately, while I am very much in love with the system Dave has listed, Im not made of gold, but rather, say, cr*ppy aluminum! For that reason, I can't actually afford to swap out my monitors. They ARE self powered, though, and are far from the bottom of the work floor.

As far as the 410 goes, Im pretty happy with it right now, so wont be swapping that for a little while either.

I AM however getting a new PC, with an external drive as suggested, what can you guys recommend?

On the mic side, what specific models can you guys vouch for? Ive heard good things about some new Shure condensers for voice over/ADR work.

Controllers anyone? Id love to get the steinberg houston, but that might be a bit expensive for me.

Im not only mixing, the system will be a broad spectrum type station - sound design, mixing, bit of music work, etc...
 
timapter said:
I know for a FACT that Nuendo is a really competitive system for ProTools! Ive seen it used on feature films here in South Africa... Basically, on the low to medium end, its SO much cheaper, and with all the spare cash you can buy some of the best hardware/software toys around to supplement Nuendo. To me, its the open-source to Protools' Microsoft.
.
Click to expand...

Let's clear something up about Nuendo. I think it is fantastic software, but Nuendo 3.0 is a $2000 software package. Considering that a high-end ProTools LE package is around $2000 (which includes an interface/control surface and software) I fail to see how this is SO much cheaper.

That aside, I think you are correct that your mic selection is definately the weakest link. Have you considered something like a Neumann TLM103? I think it is a decent mic for the price, and fairly flexible. It also looks mildly impressive which is always a plus :)

The EV RE20 is a classic broadcast/voicover mic. I don't own one and have never used one for voice so I cannot really vouch for it. They are really huge, and I think you could use one for a hammer in a pinch.

Another classic is the Sure SM7 (not SM57). I am not totally sure if you can buy these new. I know that they were discontinued for awhile.

Both the SM7 and the RE20 are in the $300ish range, and the TLM103 is probably in the $600ish range.
 
It's SO much cheaper because it's not meant to compete with ProTools LE, it is meant to compete with a full blown ProTools HD rig costing tens of thousands of dollars...

You can mix a feature (an actual film, shot on film, Hollywood feature) with Nuendo, you can't do that with ProTools LE.
 
I went from mixing on a Pro Tools TDM system to a home studio that now has Pro Tools LE (for editing mostly) and Nuendo 3. I have a 2408 MK3, Tannoy Reveal Actives and Waves plugins in addition so some cool VST plugins, etc. I've been pretty happy with it. Honestly, so far it has done everything I needed it to. And for the money (I got in early with Nuendo and paid less than a grand) it's tough to beat.

Steve
 
thanks tigeba for the mics, and thanks mattC for clearing up what I meant. the great thing about nuendo is that once you have the software, you can do ANY job with it - its an open ended, unrestricted system: you can then CHOOSE what controllers/external interfaces etc you want to use with it.

My big problem with ProTools is that its a very "closed circuit" type of system - thats why I compared it to Microsoft! Microsoft software only TRULY likes other Microsoft software!

To me, it reminds me of the old AVID systems before the renegades built Final Cut - old AVID machines had to use special, specific avid drives! Thats retarded! And it reminds me of ProTools.

Dont get me wrong, I wish I had Pro Tools. But only the best ProTools you can buy! Anything less, and Nuendo will probably beat it for - user friendly, price, the works.

Thanks for the comments everyone!
So I take it my system isnt that far off being able to produce decent stuff?

I think what cash I have will go into a preamp, and a new mic... Any opinions on that?
 
I'd spend money on tuning the room, i.e. doing whatever is necessary to assure it is accurate. All the hardware in the world won't help you if the room is lying to you.

Then I'd invest in preamps and things of that nature, but again if you are recording stuff, make sure the room is suitable or else your preamps will not be providing you with any miracles.

This is all stufff you probably already are well aware of but for anyone else that's looking to do real sound mixing in their studio, it's a must to have a good room to do it in. I'm still trying to get my room accurate and a long way from it. It's not bad, but certainly could be better.

Steve
 
I suppose it would be moot to point out that your M-Audio interface IS a Digidesign interface, and that you can run Pro Tools on it? :)

I suppose to be fair if you want to work with timecode in Pro Tools LE, you need the DV toolkit which is something like $1k. Most of the work that I do is recording music, and there are a lot of things that you simply cannot do, or do easily with a host-based system, so for me TDM is really nice.

I think any of the Neve 1272 clone preamps are a great, like Vintech or Brent Averill. I think they sound very nice for vocals and voice, and can add a lot of fatness if you really crank them. It all depends on how much stuff you need to record at once. If you are doing exclusively voice overs, you might want to consider a really high quality channel strip with a preamp and compressor, perhaps something like the UA LA-610. It is a UA tube preamp with an LA-2A esque compressor. I have not heard this strip, but I have used the UA preamp, and it is definately on my list of cool stuff. You can't go wrong with an Emperical Labs Distressor either, it is the bomb.
 
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