filming outdoors

John C Lyons

John C Lyons

Veteran
When filming mostly outdoors, and mostly during daylight hours what are some recommendations for lighting tools and situations?

Obviously I can not predict the weather, weather people can't even predict the weather...

Something to bounce sunlight off of, right? Anything else? This is a tiny guerilla project, I won't have 15 people standing around holding their cables. ;)
 
Re: filming outdoors

Outdoor light control consists of four main tools: a white bounce card, a silver bounce card, a silk, and a black negative-fill bounce card. And you can also use nets.

For bounce cards, you can use sheets of white foam core, available at art supply stores. For silver, you can either cover your foam core with aluminum foil (which can be potentially noisy in the wind) or you can get a sheet of insulation board from Lowe's/Home Depot, which is a large sheet of white styrofoam with one side covered in silver.

These bounce boards are used to fill in shadows -- you use the sun as your key light, and bounce light using the silver (harsh) or white (soft) bounce cards.

The silk is a white translucent material, mounted on some sort of frame, which you put in between the sun and your subject. It basically turns the harsh pinpoint hard sunlight into a large softlight. It can make for very flattering shots, but you have to have a way to support it (either some big stands or some helpers) and it drops the light level on your subject, which may make your backgrounds too bright (which is where a background net comes in handy, a scrim-style screen that cuts the intensity of the background).

A black card (black foam core, for the budget-minded) can serve as negative fill (to remove bounce) or to flag light off of a subject.

PhotoFlex makes a collapsible 5-in-1 reflector disc which unfolds to be about 42" round, and has reversible coverings that give you white, silver, gold, silver/gold, and translucent (silk) surfaces. Handy to have in your kit, way smaller than a sheet of foam core (or five) but you have to have a way to mount it. Impact makes a lightweight light stand that is designed for the job, it's about $60 at B&H.
 
Re: filming outdoors

barry you are the man!  gonna save that message!

ok, now to squeeze a bit more knowledge out of you...

so say i dont have a LOT of helpers (maybe 1 for audio holding a boom, 1 for lighting, and a 3rd with headphones checking the sound, script, and continuity) and i am shooting on a very tight budget and out in the middle of nowhere (woods and waterside) in daylight.  so i probably cant use silks and have giant constructed kits all over the place.  

if i have just one guy for lighting, can i probably get by and make it worth my while, and his, to have a silver, white, and black card?  i know this is all just generic opinion just thought id check your opinion for the guerrilla-minded.

and thank you steve!
 
Re: filming outdoors

Exactly. First of all, Steve's dead-on: those Show Cards would be much better to use than styrofoam, and at $5 each, you should have a set.

Secondly, about arms & stands: there is practically nothing that can't be accomplished with a good c-stand and some gaffer's tape or clamps. A brand-new c-stand with head & arm goes for about $150 or less at EVS. If you're straining on a budget, get one of those Impact stands (it can hold a Photoflex, a sheet of foam core, or a show card) and it's only $60. You'll need a sandbag or something to weight it down with. It's not a very good light stand, but it works well for holding light, flat reflector type of things.

For guerilla operations, the cheapest way to go would be to have a silver or white card and a helper to hold it. Just one bounce card can make a big difference in the look you can achieve. If you're short on helpers, get an Impact stand or, better, a real C-stand.
 
Re: filming outdoors

Just for future info, even though this may be out of your budget, Westcott sells a fantastic 52" 6-in-1 reflector for $135 (DVXuser price).  Here is a link: http://www.evsonline.com/merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=1037

It's the only reflector I know that comes with 3 completely separate products:  A full stop diffusion disc, 2 stop diffusion disc, and the zip away liner that has all the other surfaces (Silver, Gold, Sunlight and White).  I have used it as three products:  two completely separate discs for diffusing the sun on two actors, and stretched the liner on a C-stand to use as rim-light for both.  Very versatile, and the whole deal folds down into a small flat bag.
 
Re: filming outdoors

Yes, if you can find 'em used, that would be better. In L.A. that may be easy, but there's nobody out my way that has 'em, which is why I went with new.

I watched the ebay auctions, almost all the stands sold on ebay are from amvona, and they don't include heads or arms, and their shipping charges range from high to outlandish.

I looked at Pyramid's selection, but they don't list used c-stands on their site, just new ones, again at $165. KayeLites and Visual Products don't seem to have anything either.

I'd love to pick up a couple of stands with mini base, 20" risers, heads & arms - cheap. Any leads on who might have those available used?
 
Re: filming outdoors

great links!  much appreciated.

so what is the use for the gold bounce- to add a little accent or something?  and what will a "pebbled" surface do as opposed to a regular bright one?

I should be able to find a person everytime outdoors to hold a card for this project...but I'm sure you all know how that goes!

Rush, that 6-in-1 has me thinking...anyone else here recommend something like that?  (that doesnt work for EVS, he he, I keed, I keed).  how durable are those?  

I am just picturing walking through the woods to where we want to shoot, not paying attention for a second, and ripping the hell out of it.
 
Re: filming outdoors

The gold bounce is used to add a warmer tone to the scene. The pure gold side is a bit much, but the half-silver, half-gold can deliver a nice effect.
 
Re: filming outdoors

I actually used that gold and silver mix the other day for the first time, was pretty happy with it. I never have found gold to be that appealing except for on affrican american talent.
 
Re: filming outdoors

I second Jarred on that.

The Westcotts are very durable, and I have had one for years. It's one of those things, I bought it and never looked back, because it was easier in the long run than all the foamcore I ruined. But by no means are they "neccessary". All the alternative suggestions here are excellent. I just wanted to share what I know is a good product. ;D
 
Re: filming outdoors

Thanks a lot Rush.  I am thinking of going the cheap route on this short film and getting a bunch of the bounce cards, but for the next one I can see making this 6-in-1 a priority.  I appreciate your help.

***ALSO does anybody know what happened to Steve's post here with the links to those Show Cards? he he. can't buy em at that good price without the link. hmmmmmm.
 
Re: filming outdoors

I've noticed that too...Since I'm new here, I've been reading all the old posts...either somebody is erasing steve's posts or he is...there's a lot of
Thanks Steve, that helped...when steve never talked???
 
Re: filming outdoors

[quote author=the-lyons-den.com link=board=lighting;num=1079638610;start=0#12 date=03/19/04 at 18:50:55]Thanks a lot Rush.  I am thinking of going the cheap route on this short film and getting a bunch of the bounce cards, but for the next one I can see making this 6-in-1 a priority.  I appreciate your help.[/quote]

My pleasure.
 
Re: filming outdoors

are thes show cards going to be sturdy enough they way they are or should i mount them to some foam boards or something?

rush when you hear back about what the 6in1's are made of please send me a PM if this post topic gets lost in history...
 
Re: filming outdoors

Hello. Westcott said that in order to protect their proprietary fabrics, they couldn't be 100% specific about what the fabrics are made of, which I understand. It rough being in business out there. Here is the exact quote, "Our illuminators are made of the highest quality materials, including heavy duty riveted steel frames and high quality laminated fabric. Our sunlight illuminator, for example, is of intertwined thread of gold and silver. They are backed with a one-year warranty." Hope that helps!
 
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