Filming a starship model

P

Pop

Active member
Hi
I am filming a sci-fi short movie.
A Space opera.
In a few days i will be in a studio to shoot the pictures of the starship model in the space.
A few questions if someone can help me:
1) the starship is a model...but the stars... do you think is better to make it in post in CGI?
2) the sun ... I would like to have a scene framed with the starship in front of the sun... almost a silhouette ... do you have any idea how to shoot this picture? CGI? A studio light source to play the sun?
thank you so much :)
 
Pop said:
Hi
I am filming a sci-fi short movie.
A Space opera.
In a few days i will be in a studio to shoot the pictures of the starship model in the space.
A few questions if someone can help me:
1) the starship is a model...but the stars... do you think is better to make it in post in CGI?
2) the sun ... I would like to have a scene framed with the starship in front of the sun... almost a silhouette ... do you have any idea how to shoot this picture? CGI? A studio light source to play the sun?
thank you so much :)
Click to expand...

I know it's not a direct response to your questions. But just to share experience - we started today (!) our new project, a short Sci-fi which involves starships (ext. and int. scenes - int. means inside the ship). Our approach is to composite all scenes in Adobe AE using Element 3D plugin, stock models (modified as needed per script) and shooting actors with green screen. For open space we use NASA imagery (public domain) and compositing in Adobe AE (including Red Giant Trapcode Particular plugin). Everything you described can be easily done the same way.

This is my second production using this workflow/technique (the first though wasn't about space). It's very realistic and low cost (but the more you pay for models, the more realistic it is). With the new project we plan for more complex scenes and more complex techniques. By the way, it works (and we tried it successfully as well) the "opposite" way: compositing 3D models into live scenes. We are not a CGI shop and not 3D modelers - just nothing beyond regular AE skills although we ask 3D pros for help to tweak our models. In future though we plan to move to Nuke (or Fusion when it becomes available on Mac - Fusion is essentially free).
 
Someone ought to buy my old rack mount Waveform monitor and Vector scope to use as in-ship control panels.

Anyone remember the Grass Valley switcher in the Death Star?
 
David W. Jones said:
Anyone remember the Grass Valley switcher in the Death Star?
Click to expand...

In the early '80s I sometimes directed in a studio that had a GVG switcher much like the one in the movie. A couple of times as we were fading in at the start of a show, my command to the technical director was, "begin primary ignition!"

- Greg
 
silyn said:
I know it's not a direct response to your questions. But just to share experience - we started today (!) our new project, a short Sci-fi which involves starships (ext. and int. scenes - int. means inside the ship). Our approach is to composite all scenes in Adobe AE using Element 3D plugin, stock models (modified as needed per script) and shooting actors with green screen. For open space we use NASA imagery (public domain) and compositing in Adobe AE (including Red Giant Trapcode Particular plugin). Everything you described can be easily done the same way.

This is my second production using this workflow/technique (the first though wasn't about space). It's very realistic and low cost (but the more you pay for models, the more realistic it is). With the new project we plan for more complex scenes and more complex techniques. By the way, it works (and we tried it successfully as well) the "opposite" way: compositing 3D models into live scenes. We are not a CGI shop and not 3D modelers - just nothing beyond regular AE skills although we ask 3D pros for help to tweak our models. In future though we plan to move to Nuke (or Fusion when it becomes available on Mac - Fusion is essentially free).
Click to expand...

Can you please link me the nasa public gallery you are talking about?
thank you
 
Pop said:
Can you please link me the nasa public gallery you are talking about?
thank you
Click to expand...

You can start here (but don't expect find everything immediately; their images are organized in their own way and scattered across many galleries where difference research centers may have their own stuff):
http://www.nasa.gov/audience/formedia/features/MP_Photo_Guidelines.html
and here
http://www.jsc.nasa.gov/policies.html#Guidelines

And if you do your homework, you will find beautiful images like this
http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/astropix.html
http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap150724.html

More practical would be simply Google for "nasa space photos public domain" and go to Google images but many of those are low res.

Final advice: go to https://www.flickr.com/ and use **advanced** search for something like "nasa universe"
https://www.flickr.com/search/?text=nasa universe

and you will find beauties like this:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/nasam...CA9-qfwAyt-qftgbd-piLNYD-pXYD8S-pixrYE-qfmBBr

You need to be careful with copyright. Many NASA public images on Flickr are claimed as copyright by those who posted them - this is actually illegal. However, some users create derivatives that can be copyrighted. The best way to sort all this out quickly (with chances of having false negatives) is to specify in the advanced search that you want only Creative Commons images.
 
thank you so much for the links :)
just a question: these are photos...and photos are static pictures
how do you use a photo in a video?
For istance: the light of stars and galaxies have a little flicker...but in a photo you loose flicker....so...how can you manage this problem?
thank you :)
 
Study the space scenes from the great space epics: 2001, Star Wars, etc... You'll notice the harsh single-source lighting, creating lots of harsh shadows on the ships. That is what you want to emulate. Those are golden.

SB
 
Pop said:
thank you so much for the links :)
just a question: these are photos...and photos are static pictures
how do you use a photo in a video?
For istance: the light of stars and galaxies have a little flicker...but in a photo you loose flicker....so...how can you manage this problem?
thank you :)
Click to expand...
It depends on a specific picture. If we are talking about stars only, these are very remote objects, so if you have camera movements, there is no parallax and you can treat the picture as it is - static. Of course, if you have an object moving against stars, that's different. You simply need to have a large enough picture to allow for enough background while "tracking" your ship (again, simply because stars are very far from the ship).

Things get a bit more complicated if you have other objects and you want to show their relative movement. For example, you have a fast moving ship against a planet which is close enough. The question then becomes how you use a static photo from NASA? Photoshop comes to rescue. You need to create a separate layer which should have the planet isolated from its background. Select the planet and put it into a new layer. Obviously you have to do something with the original layer - namely paint (most likely using the clone tool) whatever you want to see behind the planet (most likely something like stars :).

You can import such picture into Adobe AE (or any compositing tool) with separate layers you create in Photoshop. After that just make them 3D in AE (and define all the parameters you need to make such layers behave as you want). That will give you a chance to create relative movement - ship vs planet vs stars when you use camera movements.

Having said all this (and it is also relevant to your question about stars) you need to make decisions on some artistic choices because if you follow strictly the laws of physics in your space scenes, it's very likely the audience is not going to like them. Recent films try to stay very close to how it should look in real space. This doesn't mean though that it will look and behave exactly like real thing. Personally, I wouldn't make stars flicker. But if you want this, no problem. If you read my original response, you will see that I also mentioned RG Particular plugin for AE. This thing is remarkably sophisticated. Especially when it comes to creating stars��. If you want to follow what Hollywood is doing, my recommendation would be to watch Gravity and latest Star Trek movies like Into Darkness. By the way, its closing credit sequence done completely in After Effects. Looks very good.
 
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