Film Makers Blues

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mikewest13

Well-known member
Hey guys,

I just wanted to see how all of you deal with film making blues. What i mean by this is every so often i get this rushing feeling of being overwhelmed and wondering why i am devoting so much time, energy and money to something that isn't my full time job.

There are so many obstacles in the way that make success, even moderate, in this business very difficult.

The other day for example i was putting an ad on craigslist looking for crew members to work on my upcoming short for no pay, but credit. About an hour later, there was a post on craigslist bashing everyone looking for "FREE" help. It's things like this that make it so hard and disheartening to deal with when all you want to do is make a freaking horror movie, like you've dreamed about since being a kid. Not having money, basically shaving money from an already squeezed paycheck isn't ideal, but something i do for the love of what i am doing.

Sure, i have no cash, little experience, but that doesn't mean that i want to create a peice of crap. That's why i work so hard to surround myself with experienced people.

anyways, how do you deal with the blues when you feel that you should just give up and not waste your time playing with the big boys, when you haven't even taken off your training wheels.

Mike
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Mike:

I can appreciate how disheartening it can be. I'm in the same boat, and while there are a lot of experienced, professional members here, there are also a ton of guys like us. And regardless of how small the project or insignificant the question, the people on dvxuser are always stepping up to the plate to help out their fellow filmmakers.

I can't offer a whole lot of advice, but I can definitely tell you not to let naysayers like the guy you ran into on craiglist stop you. Search for enthusiastic people like yourself and try to learn all you can from those that have realized success.

Keep your chin up!

John
 
Mike,

It helps when you put a least a general location in your user profile. People on the board may see that you are in the same area as they are and offer their services. If people see you're out there but don't know where you are, they may not really be interested in researching it further.
 
*updated location in profile*

One other thing i find a bit hard to handle, as a newbie, is maintaining the whole project, which in my case is 4 months of pre-production.

Keeping the crew members invloved and interested over the next 4 months is going to be hard i think. They are working for free, so trying to get a lot out of them is unrealistic. Its like a house of cards that i am balancing, and hoping a major card doesn't get pulled out lol
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4 months with no pay? whoa. maybe you should try to at least pay them something even if its just bringing them food while you're on your shoots. are you doing a feature?

i wouldnt worry about the poster on craigslist bashing you for looking for free work. for all u know he couldve just been laid off and frustrated becaue nobody wants to pay him what HE feels he's worth. let it roll off your shoulders.
 
Well, those 4 months prior, of pre-production, are just once a month meetings to get the logistics locked down, and make sure each area is ready and has their **** together.

during the shoot (a weekend) i am feeding and housing them :)


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mikewest13 said:


Sure, i have no cash, little experience, but that doesn't mean that i want to create a peice of crap. That's why i work so hard to surround myself with experienced people.


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Click to expand...

you have no cash and you want experienced pros to work for you for free?

hows about your boss called you up one morning and said, "Hey Mikewest13, can you come in for the next 2 weeks and work for free... but I'll make sure to mention your name next year at the company Xmas party....mmmkay"

you want better quality people and more motivated crew members? pay them.... its a pretty simple formula bro
 
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and its not 2 weeks.... its a day and a half.... i've worked for free to do inventory, not something i liked, but had to do.

This is acutally fun.

P.S. FU
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Hey, he started it.....

Why do so many people feel so against free talent/crew? How can you get a decent job without experience? How can you get experience without a decent job? Sure you can do the ranks in the industry, but why not volunteer your time to get experience in a position you are actually interested in? Why not help out up and coming people to boost the overall skill level of the industry.

Now, i am not against paying people, as i am going to be paying the DOP and Sound recordist, but i feel that for a short film (1.5 days) great location, script and experience, it is well worth someone volunteering their time and talent if the outcome is worth it to that person.

Why do people intern for little or no money? ... to gain experience!
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nothing wrong with volunteering to gain experience..... usually the people who are interns and volunteers are younger with no experience and they are in school (working for credit/hrs).... hence the term "intern"

so...

dont go expecting to get some really experienced crew members to work for free

and personally (on the topic of non-paid work) I think its bollocks and bullsh*t to work for free/credit/copy/meals.... and there are a lot of swindler/cheapskates that exploit these individuals who allow themselves to be worked for free... this sets a bad example and perpetuates these types of ill practices

and if its such a small short film production, why do you need a large crew? You have a paid DP, a paid sound guy, and yourself...... what more do you need?

does having 15 or so people standing around and not getting paid (while taking orders from you) make you feel like a "filmmaker"?

my advice....

go to the local college and post flyers looking for interns
 
beyond DOP and sound, i still need make up, fx, and a grip

I am not doing this to call myself a "film maker", this isn't a dick measuring contest.

the reason for having experienced people on set is to allow the flow to go faster and not miss anything.

And for the record, i have the crew i have found so far are 50/50 experienced vs. recent grads looking for experience.

BTW, the original intention of this thread was to get advice on how others deal with the discouraging words of others and of that little voice inside, not to go off on a tangent like this one.
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One last thing... if you don't want to work for FREE, DON'T.... those who do are doing it for various reasons, none of which apply to you.
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That's ok... i'm sorry for my response as well, i just feel really defensive lately.

I agree that there are people out there that take advantage of good and kind hearted people willing to help others out. Those people screw everything for the rest of us. Like the kid who throws **** in the classroom, we all pay (actually, that was me ).

anyways, i really do appreciate the feedback, good or bad, because an honest answer can be painful if you don't accept it as true.

Having said that, I still feel that I can, and have, a good balance or professional and student help on this film to take some of the pressure off of me, and to make the shoot go smoother (hopefully). I will look at pearing off any un-needed people though. Less mouths to feed.
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Guys,

Lets not take it out on each other (or Ill close this thread :) ) glad to see you make it up. The filmmaker blues are hard on us all. Regarding the problem of working for free, ummm I see it from both POV's. I tend to swap favours if I can't pay but If I can't offer anything, I usually try and...

A, make sure I always use the same crew (getting paid) on corporate jobs, or any project with a budget, then if they know its for me or a group project I don't feel so bad about asking.
B, make sure everyone is well looked after (fed) and praised.
C, make sure that if Im not paying, I let them have input in their depts rather than going all Cameron on their ass.
D, lend what gear I do have out if anyone needs it.
E, respect them if they can't do it.

Its a tough call but sometimes making something out of nothing helps you when you do get that something.
Also build a crew of likeminded people around you rather than asking complete strangers.
Jp
 
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I agree, this project, being credit based, is a group project... i am far from a cameron personality, and i welcome input, but of course with the final say :)


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I agree that there are people who will work for free to gain experience. (interns) but they need someone there to teach them, they should NOT be the sole person doing the particular job. In your posts though you say you want experienced people on your set. If you have experienced crew they expect to be paid, they do not need your short film for experience as they are already experienced. On the other hand if you hire free crew with no experience, then WHO is going to teach them? Have you told your experienced DP that he is now teaching someone with no experience to be a gaffer? Do you have the experience to teach someone the corrcect way to do things in the make up dept, grip dept, etc?
For you this is a part time hobby or a dream of becoming a film maker, you have a job that you get paid to work at. The people that you want to work for free on your short film pay their bills by working in film, it is their job. So you have to understand why some people will take offense to you for asking for experienced free labor so you can persue your dream.
The best way to overcome these blues is to sit down and work out a realistic budget to produce your film and then raise the money for it. Or you could always do what some people have done and put it on a credit card.
 
This topic keeps getting further and further off topic....

I have people of varying experiences on my crew.... maybe i just have all the crazies willing to volunteer their time... whatever.

i am glad that none of you are in my area though :O, you are all demoralizing.
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