Fighting a Traffic Ticket

mjmcneese

mjmcneese

Veteran
got a friendly letter in the mail today from my local municipality asking that I fork over $95 for running a red light a few weeks ago. A camera caught me going thru a red light on my way home from a gig. Why I want to fight it? Well because the incident occurred on the night of the big Ohio blizzard last month.

I meant to run the red light for several reasons: I couldn't stop in time because of the 18" of snow on the ground, and if I did try to stop I wouldve either slid into the middle of the intesection, or I wouldve lost control, slid and dropped 40' onto I-70. No matter what i would have done, i would still end up with a ticket of some sort. So, I think I did the right/safe thing and coasted thru the light. I'm not telling y'all that to try to convince you. I'm telling you so that you can maybe offer some advice on how to fight it...is it worth fighting? How do I plea? This is all new to me, so may some of you less law-abiding citizens can throw some tips my way? Thanks!!!
 
Check your ticket closely, It ain't the municipality gave you the ticket. It was likely a private company contracted by the municipality to install and operate the cameras.
But, they will likely ask you why, if the conditions were so bad, were you driving at a rate not likely to allow you to stop for a light. Under the given conditions, you should have been crawling and thus able to stop without any problem. If you were unable to stop in time, they will hit you with 1) failure to maintain a speed safe under the conditions 2) failure to maintain control of your vehicle (reason, see #1) 3) failure to stop at a red light.
Consider yourself lucky and pay the fine. What if you had met someone going the cross way?
Not trying to bust 'em for ya. Just telling you what the judge is going to say.
My understanding is this on beating a light camera. Someone else is going to have to walk in and say they were the one driving, and then they have to admit to running the light and they have to pay the fine.
 
I have a few POI files loaded on my GPS that tells me the exact position of every red light cam and speed cam in the entire country. As I get near one of those cams, my GPS turns red and beeps. Then it says, "Security Zone Alert!" That allows me to (1) be aware of the trap and (2) re-route myself around it, if I so choose.
 
Well...

I knew there was a red light camera there - there are signs all over the place. Plus, this is a route I travel 3-4 times a week, and I've never had a problem before. It really was a situation of trying to not cause a bigger problem by trying to stop.

I was going 28 in a 35 zone...the ticket says that. I could be wrong but in Ohio there's no guidline or law about going slower in inclimate weather. And it wasn't like, "oh, the light's red, I think I'll just coast through it." kit was like the light turned yellow, I had to make a decision, and then when I was in the middle of the interstction, the light turned red. Not sure if that could make any diffrence...I do appreciate the honest perspective, Wild. I'd rather hear it now than from a judge.

The other thing is, if this was just a $95 ticket, sure I'd pay it and move on. But its a mark on my record and untold monies that I'll end up paying as a result of increased insurance rates...ugh!
 
Wild Imagination Films said:
Check your ticket closely, It ain't the municipality gave you the ticket. It was likely a private company contracted by the municipality to install and operate the cameras.
But, they will likely ask you why, if the conditions were so bad, were you driving at a rate not likely to allow you to stop for a light. Under the given conditions, you should have been crawling and thus able to stop without any problem. If you were unable to stop in time, they will hit you with 1) failure to maintain a speed safe under the conditions 2) failure to maintain control of your vehicle (reason, see #1) 3) failure to stop at a red light.
Consider yourself lucky and pay the fine. What if you had met someone going the cross way?
Click to expand...

Agreed. If you were driving in poor conditions and you admit that you couldn't stop safely... you were driving too fast for said conditions.

That will not look good in court.
 
Mike McNeese said:
I was going 28 in a 35 zone...the ticket says that. I could be wrong but in Ohio there's no guidline or law about going slower in inclimate weather. And it wasn't like, "oh, the light's red, I think I'll just coast through it." kit was like the light turned yellow, I had to make a decision, and then when I was in the middle of the interstction, the light turned red. Not sure if that could make any diffrence...
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In California the law says that if all four wheels are in the intersection before the light turns red, then you are legal. Also it does state here that you can get ticketed for driving "too fast for condidtions" which means I could get pulled over for going 35 in a 45 zone if it was dark and hailing. But I am not sure what the law says regarding these two issues in your state, I think it would be worth looking up.

In regards to the overall situation, it is tricky, you could try saying it was too unsafe to stop because of the weather. I think that the fact that the light had just changed helps you a little because if the light was already red you probably would have been slowing down for a while until you reached the intersection. Going this route may get you the "you should always be on the safe side and begin slowing down" but it might be worth it.

I, of course, am no authority on this so take my advice with a grain of salt. Bets of luck to you, man, and have a good one!

:beer: Cheers,
 
Michael Anthony Horrigan said:
Agreed. If you were driving in poor conditions and you admit that you couldn't stop safely... you were driving too fast for said conditions.
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Not necessarily. W/o knowing more about the situation we can't say whether or not the OP was driving too fast for the road conditions. The OP could've been going well under the speed limit, but still too fast to stop *safely* if he was close to the light when it turned red. And the traffic cameras are there to make money, not help public safety, so I wouldn't be surprised if the light went from green to yellow to red pretty quickly.


-A
 
adkimery said:
Not necessarily. W/o knowing more about the situation we can't say whether or not the OP was driving too fast for the road conditions. The OP could've been going well under the speed limit, but still too fast to stop *safely* if he was close to the light when it turned red. And the traffic cameras are there to make money, not help public safety, so I wouldn't be surprised if the light went from green to yellow to red pretty quickly.


-A
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He himself said....
I couldn't stop in time because of the 18" of snow on the ground, and if I did try to stop I wouldve either slid into the middle of the intesection, or I wouldve lost control, slid and dropped 40' onto I-70.
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Sorry... that's enough for me. When road conditions change, so should your driving. What if he HAD to stop!??

If he goes into court with the quoted statement above he doesn't stand a chance.

Nothing against the OP. Just my opinion.

Mike
 
I doubt that's an argument I would make...but seriously!!!

I'm just not a guy that's got $95 lying around. I really think I did the right thing, and I'll take that to the grave.

Maybe I couldve stopped in time, but I had a split second to make that decision, and coasting through seemed the safest route.

Thanks for an interesting thread...
 
Mike McNeese said:
I doubt that's an argument I would make...but seriously!!!

I'm just not a guy that's got $95 lying around. I really think I did the right thing, and I'll take that to the grave.

Maybe I couldve stopped in time, but I had a split second to make that decision, and coasting through seemed the safest route.

Thanks for an interesting thread...
Click to expand...
I agree. You probably did make the right decision based on the road conditions and your speed.
But the fact of the matter is that you couldn't have stopped safely, even if you wanted/needed to.

That's dangerous. In that kind of weather I've made the same mistake, but it was my mistake.

Good luck though! I hope you don't have to end up paying the fine.
 
Michael Anthony Horrigan said:
He himself said....

Sorry... that's enough for me. When road conditions change, so should your driving. What if he HAD to stop!??
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Like I said, w/o knowing how fast he was going and how far away he was from the light we can't say whether or not he was going too fast. I've gone 10-15mph in a 50mph zone and SLIDE thru a red light because I was very close to the light when it changed. The plow trucks hadn't come around so the road conditions sucked making stopping, at nearly any speed, difficult. Thankfully the cross traffic was paying attention and saw me sliding thru the intersection so they didn't go until I was clear.


-A
 
adkimery said:
Like I said, w/o knowing how fast he was going and how far away he was from the light we can't say whether or not he was going too fast. I've gone 10-15mph in a 50mph zone and SLIDE thru a red light because I was very close to the light when it changed. The plow trucks hadn't come around so the road conditions sucked making stopping, at nearly any speed, difficult. Thankfully the cross traffic was paying attention and saw me sliding thru the intersection so they didn't go until I was clear.


-A
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I've been there as well, slid through a few intersections from time to time during bad weather. I live in Canada and we can get some really bad conditions, especially this year. Still, you can always stop in time if you are paying attention to the lights from a distance. If a light is close to changing in such conditions you should slow right down. You either drive slowly through the yellow as it turns red, or you stop. But you do so with some sense of control.

Any light I've ever run or slid through was due to my own driving error. Usually going a little too fast for the conditions and/or not paying close enough to the lights.

I understand that bad conditions cause accidents. The first seasonal snowfall in most cities records some of the most accidents all year. Some people just forget that you need to adjust.

I'm not trying to pick on the OP or anyone else. There are some conditions where if you don't have good snow tires you are screwed. Maybe this was the case here.

Either way. I hope he does get off. Seems like a crappy way to hand out a ticket considering the conditions. I just don't think he'll be able to fight this one.
Who knows... maybe they'll look at the road conditions that day and have some pity.

It's definitely worth a shot.

Mike
 
Pshhh... show up in court, tell the judge your story, and make sure she/he knows that on that date, there was indeed a bad snowstorm. My guess is it'll be dismissed. That easy.

On another note: who has to appear on behalf of the camera? when you go to court to fight a ticket, the officer who gave you the ticket must also show up. If not, it's cased dismissed... and it happens ALL the time.
 
The only chance you would have, is if you were indeed already fully into the intersection when the light turned red. Most places do not consider that a violation. If you cross the plane of the white line before a light turns full red, you did not run it. Add in the storm, etc...

Keep in mind, I would only fight it if you really feel in principle you did not violate any traffic law. Reason being, you may or may not also have to pay add'l court fees if you lose your appeal on top of the fine, so it'll end up costing your even more.

Later,
Jason
 
Michael Anthony Horrigan said:
I've been there as well, slid through a few intersections from time to time during bad weather. I live in Canada and we can get some really bad conditions, especially this year. Still, you can always stop in time if you are paying attention to the lights from a distance. If a light is close to changing in such conditions you should slow right down. You either drive slowly through the yellow as it turns red, or you stop. But you do so with some sense of control.
Click to expand...
One thing I've noticed some cities doing is adding a countdown to the cross walk signal and I've found this to be very helpful when driving, and cycling, to gauge when a light is going to turn. I hope more cities adopt this.


Either way. I hope he does get off. Seems like a crappy way to hand out a ticket considering the conditions. I just don't think he'll be able to fight this one.
Who knows... maybe they'll look at the road conditions that day and have some pity.
Mike
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I have a fundamental dislike for traffic cameras as they are more of a revenue stream than a public safety measure. If an officer had pulled over the OP then at least he would've had a chance to make his case on the scene, with someone who say exactly what happened as opposed to now having to do it well after the fact.


-A
 
Jason Ramsey said:
The only chance you would have, is if you were indeed already fully into the intersection when the light turned red.
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Well...I was. The picture was taken right as the light turned red, and I have all four wheels right in the middle of the intersection.

Plus, MAYBE I could've stopped? I don't know. They don't know. How could anyone quantify if I could have stopped at that speed, in that amount of space...or not? I mean, seriously, I felt I was going a reasonable speed for the conditions, but in the split second that I had to decide what to do, I calculated less risk if I just coasted through the intersection. All the while, knowing that I was at a camera-enforced intersection, and that more than likely I was gonna get 'caught.' Ticket or not, I did what I thought was safe.
 
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