field mixer ??

@ptalsky:
I thought it was obvious that by "recording to a laptop" I meant recording through the analog mic in ports on a typical laptop. What I'm just trying to say is that laptop analog to digital converters tend to be really noisy compared to those on even consumer camcorders.

If by "with the proper equipment" you mean recording to an multi-track external audio recorder that merely uses the laptop as a digital store, then of course it's more robust than recording to a typical cam. I'm pretty sure that's what you mean because a typical laptop can't record more than 1 or 2 analog tracks at once. What I'm speaking against is taking the output of your mixer and connecting it to the mic in or line in analog ports on your laptop.

Do you understand what I'm saying now? If you're capturing your audio digitally, then of course there'll be no degradation. It'll be a lossless process like DV capture over firewire. I'm just saying "avoid the analog audio in ports on your laptop". that's all. I thought that was obvious.
 
eofeapr said:
OK I looked at the Audio Fires and sorry for totally lame question(noobe to audio) BUT how am I using this to record with XLR mics ?? will I now need adapters for the mics ??

You say if you wanted to you can get 20 tracks via daisychain, that makes sense but I'd have to guess it's all 1/4 inch gear and instruments,,, mostly...
Click to expand...

I still say that for a beginner, recording into the camera with a good mixer and a decent mic/boom setup is going to offer the best chance of success.
 
Steve House said:
Another benefit of this arrangment is an incredibly flexible array of signal routing options, since all those channels are full duplex, capable of playig back through all 20 outputs while at the same time recording a different signal into all 20 inputs - can you say mixing and processing in the analog domain while bouncing tracks <grin>
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How Very Interesting !!! lovin the lesson thnx so much
 
seunosewa said:
Do you understand what I'm saying now? If you're capturing your audio digitally, then of course there'll be no degradation. It'll be a lossless process like DV capture over firewire. I'm just saying "avoid the analog audio in ports on your laptop". that's all. I thought that was obvious.
Click to expand...


I understand. i my case what I was entertaining was the thought of a USB or Firewire connection that would accept my mic,,, but I never was thinking of using some cheesy laptop mic nor anything analog at all.



Ok I keep forgetting to ask but what does 'line level' mean ?? do I need it. Is having it or not, a deal breaker. Sorry for totaly NuB question



cheers
 
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here;s the specs on a cheap but OK looking field mixer for under 200.00 us

Pleas gimme your opinions... thnx


Rolls MX124
The MX124 is a very useful microphone mixer. It's perfect for sub-mixing microphones in an installation or recording application. The Phantom Power and Low-Cut switches as well as 1/4" and 1/8" TRS stereo outputs make the MX124 ideal for remote recording, and connecting to a video camera.

Features:

Mixes four microphones to stereo XLR outputs
Output level controls for mic or line-level output
Transformer isolated outputs.
Phantom Power and Low-Cut switches for each Mic input
Battery and AC powered
1/4" and 1/8" TRS stereo Phone/Aux Outputs
Specifications:

Input Impedance: 600 Ohms
Output Impedance: XLR 600 Ohms
THD + Noise: .02%
S/N Ratio: 84 dB
Frequency Response: 25 Hz - 16 kHz (+0 / -3 dB)
Max Output Level: + 14 dB
Max Input Level: -14 dB
Max Gain: +55 dB
Low Cut: -3 dB @ 100 Hz
Current Draw: 30 mA
Phantom Power: +18 VDC
Connectors: 4 Female XLR, 2 Male XLR, 1 1/4" TRS, 1: 1/8" (3.5mm)
Power: 9V alkaline batteries X 2, DC Power Jack (5.5 X 2.1 mm tip negative) for Rolls PS27 (included)
Dimensions (W x D x H): 6.3" x 3.7" x 2.3"
Weight: 1.5 lbs.
 
You would be much better off saving up for a good mixer. You can get a Sound Devices Mix Pre as your entry point. They hold their value well and when you are ready to upgrade to a 302 you should get most of your money back.
 
I agree with Mike, I picked up a 302 a while back, It's built like a tank well worth the money. Pay for it once and you'll get your money back.

Robert
 
I guess so guys,,,

I mean it's like 600 plus at the moment which is a lil bit of a stretch for me.
BUT, I do know all too well that you get what you pay for though.
 
we have all been there. your reactions are par for the course... look for something cheaper, I did too. When it gets down to it, you really want a n SD302. I love mine, would trade it for a kidney.
 
eofeapr said:
I understand. i my case what I was entertaining was the thought of a USB or Firewire connection that would accept my mic,,, but I never was thinking of using some cheesy laptop mic nor anything analog at all.



Ok I keep forgetting to ask but what does 'line level' mean ?? do I need it. Is having it or not, a deal breaker. Sorry for totaly NuB question



cheers
Click to expand...

All mics are analog, that's the nature of the beast. When we talk about the problems with using the mic input of the laptop, it's not that because it's analog, it's because it is marginally designed and cheaply made analog sitting inside the computer case in an environment where it's awash with electrical noise. My defense of the mixer feeding the laptop through a line input as a viable option is based on the fact that most camcorder audio sections, certainly those in consumer camcorders, are even MORE marginally designed and cheaply made than are laptop sound cards. An external USB or Firewire interface on the laptop is even better, keeping the analog parts of the chain outside the electrically noisy computer innards. With a mixer feeding the mic/line input the A/D conversion takes place in the laptop. With a USB or FireWire interface the conversion takes place outside the laptop in the interface itself.

"Line level" is a term that indicates the strength of an audio signal a piece of equipment sends from its output or excpects at its input in order to work properly. All equipment expects the signals it's handling to be at a certain voltage and is designed to operate best at a certain nominal signal level. There are three basic ranges that equipment can be expected to deal with, mic level and two 'flavours' of line level. Mic level is the signal produced, well, by microphone outputs - it's very low, on the order of a few millivolts. Line level is a much higher voltage than mic level and is the singal level used when connecting pieces of gear to each each other. When you plug your stereo receiver into a power amplifier, your DVD player into the audio inputs of your TV, or your computer's sound card output to a set of powered speakers on your desktop the signal going between the two devices is line level. It can get a bit confusing sometimes because there are really two different line levels. Consumer gear like home theatre receivers, CD and DVD players, stereos, etc is standardized on a nominal signal level of 0.316 volts while professional recording, broadcast, studio, and sound reinforcment equipment operates at a nominal 1.228 volts. Signal levels are usually expressed in decibels (dB) which is the relative strength of the signal above or below some arbitrarily chosen zero point. Mic level signals have the widest range and various mic put out anywhere from about -35dBu down to around -70dBu. Consumer line level signals hover around -10dBv, pro line level is +4dBu.

If you plug a line level source signal into an input expecting mic level it will be so strong that it will overload the device and the resulting sound is severely borken up and distorted. If you plug a mic level source into an input needing line level, it will be so weak that you'll probably hear nothing at all. If you plug a conusmer level signal into a pro level input you'll hear it but it will be so weak that you'll have to turn up the volume and that turns up the noise as well as the desired signal. If you plug a pro level signal into a consumer line output it will be so loud that you'll have to turn the volume down to prevent overload and it still may distort on louder passages. The universe requires us to always be in balance for best results.
 
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WHOAH !! Steve, we're not worthy,,, lol

That was great brother ! I get that now.

So then, whatever it is I can buy with current low funds is going to be better than straight Cam Audio. So what I'm looking to do is math up the lines,, right ? So the interface will need to be mic level from that mic and I need to know if firewire/USB on my lappy will do line level,,, or am I looking to use mic level here also ???

What say you regarding Azden FMX-20 for a starter ??
 
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Mike you're a crack up, lol

Wish I had something to sell (not a kidney,,, lol) cause I do know the Sound devices a re very cool but my pocket's in the Berringer Isle and the salesman is whispering and laughing, keeps turning away every-time I go near him. I had MXL in my hand earlier, just reading the specs, and I'm pretty sure he saw that cause I think he laughed and peed-a-little. ;-)
 
eofeapr said:
WHOAH !! Steve, we're not worthy,,, lol

That was great brother ! I get that now.

So then, whatever it is I can buy with current low funds is going to be better than straight Cam Audio. So what I'm looking to do is math up the lines,, right ? So the interface will need to be mic level from that mic and I need to know if firewire/USB on my lappy will do line level,,, or am I looking to use mic level here also ???
Click to expand...

Thr firewire or USB connectors on the laptop are neither one. "Mic" and "line" refers to analog audio signal levels. A USB or Firewire audio interface takes an analog audio input signal and converts it into a digital data stream which is relayed on to the computer - as far as the computer is concerned it could just as easily be an external hard drive, a memory key, a mouse, or a webcam. Data is data and it's up to the software to determine what it means. If you go the interface route it is important to know what it expects in terms of input signal levels but the computer itself doesn't care. You've got two possible chains to consider ...

[MIC] -> [MIXER or PREAMP] -> [LAPTOP MIC/LINE IN]
[MIC] -> [MIXER or PREAMP] -> [INTERFACE] -> [LAPTOP USB/FIRE PORT]

Depending on the specifc brands and models the mic preamps may, most likely will, be integrated into the interface so what I've illustrated as [MIXER]->[INTERFACE] will actually be one box. For examples, see ...

http://echoaudio.com/Products/FireWire/AudioFire4/index.php

or

http://sounddevices.com/products/usbpremaster.htm
 
Oh,,, missed this part before,,,
( "Mic" and "line" refers to analog audio signal levels )
And thanks for the links, then it's looking like the
audiofire for 265.00 us

thanks for hanging in there with me, really appreciate the help.

joe
 
eofeapr said:
Mike you're a crack up, lol

Wish I had something to sell (not a kidney,,, lol) cause I do know the Sound devices a re very cool but my pocket's in the Berringer Isle and the salesman is whispering and laughing, keeps turning away every-time I go near him. I had MXL in my hand earlier, just reading the specs, and I'm pretty sure he saw that cause I think he laughed and peed-a-little. ;-)
Click to expand...

Take a look at the sound devices MM1 it may do what you need.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/292989-REG/Sound_Devices_MM1_MM_1_Single_Channel.html
 
eofeapr said:
Oh,,, missed this part before,,,
( "Mic" and "line" refers to analog audio signal levels )
And thanks for the links, then it's looking like the
audiofire for 265.00 us

thanks for hanging in there with me, really appreciate the help.

joe
Click to expand...

I gotta ask - why are you so committed to going double system, whether it's to a separate audio recorder or into a laptop? While the interface/laptop combo is certainly a viable way of recording production sound and a number of cart-based soundies have begun working with them, for most indy style shoots it is quite unwieldy, not at all portable enough for ENG/Run-and-gun style working. What is wrong with sticking with single system, continuing to record in the camera and upgrading the audio chain feeding it by acquiring decent mics and a good field mixer? That's the way I would go - sticking with single system recording until I could afford to add a proper portable audio recorder. If you're shooting drama or music on a soundstage or controlled fixed location such as a theatrical feature shooting on location, then the laptop route would be worth consideing but not for flexible shooting in improvised locations or on the move. You need a good mixer, mics, boom, wireless etc anyway if you want best results whether you're shooting single or double system so take care of first things first.
 
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Steve House said:
I gotta ask - why are you so committed to going double system, whether it's to a separate audio recorder or into a laptop? While the interface/laptop combo is certainly a viable way of recording production sound and a number of cart-based soundies have begun working with them, for most indy style shoots it is quite unwieldy, not at all portable enough for ENG/Run-and-gun style working. What is wrong with sticking with single system, continuing to record in the camera and upgrading the audio chain feeding it by acquiring decent mics and a good field mixer? That's the way I would go - sticking with single system recording until I could afford to add a proper portable audio recorder. If you're shooting drama or music on a soundstage or controlled fixed location such as a theatrical feature shooting on location, then the laptop route would be worth consideing but not for flexible shooting in improvised locations or on the move. You need a good mixer, mics, boom, wireless etc anyway if you want best results whether you're shooting single or double system so take care of first things first.
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Steve, I'm not fighting you on this,, I'm green and am just starting to get it, thanks to you and the rest.
So don't give up on me, I can afford a good scolding.
And am looking at my choices for the miser.

thnx
joe
 
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