Feature Film too big to export to DVD!

S

Smithhouse

Well-known member
Hey guys... I'm in a real pickle hear. Just finished editing my first feature film and I can't export it to dvd because it's 4.83 gigs... the people at discmakers thought that was unusually large file for a 1 hour and 50 min. movie... Does anybody have an idea of what I might have done to cause this? or what I can do to fix it.

Thanks to all

SmithHouse
 
Smithhouse,
Are you using the 'Export to DVD' option in Premiere Pro? If so, when you export, choose an encoding preset with a lower bitrate. It you're using a constant bitrate setting (CBR), try using a variable bitrate setting. Blaine's suggestion to use AC3 audio encoding is a good one but I don't think that's a choice if you export directly to DVD with PPro. That's where a DVD authoring program like Encore comes in.
-Dan
 
Blaine, TeleDan... Thanks a bunch for your speedy response. I honestly don't know what the difference is between pcm or ac3, but I will look into it... I am exporting right to DVD from ppro 1.5... if I adjust the bitrate is that going to affect the quality of the DVD? (my apologies if that's a dumb question).

Thanks guys,

SmithHouse
 
PCM stands for "pulse code modulation", which is engineer-speak for uncompressed audio. This is the same format used in CD audio. It's also the simplest, so it's supported by nearly all authoring tools. Since there is no compression, there are no audio compromises. In fact, with a sampling rate of 48 kiloHertz, it offers higher audio fidelity than CD Audio. As a result, PCM audio tends to be used on some musically oriented titles.

However, the lack of compression means that PCM audio takes a lot of space: 1.5 megabits per second, or almost 700 megabytes per hour. That wouldn't be an issue, except that you're also trying to get video on there -- and video needs all the bits it can get. In next week's Nightmare we'll talk about bit budgeting in more detail, but in general you're better off using fewer bytes for audio and more for video. Which means...

DOLBY DIGITAL TO THE RESCUE

Dolby Digital (also known by its code name, "AC3") uses sophisticated compression techniques to squeeze audio to a fraction of its size. It's actually a better audio codec than MP3. Most people won't be able to hear any difference between a properly done Dolby Digital track and the uncompressed original. There are a number of parameters to fine-tune, but you can generally leave most of them at their defaults. There are two that matter most: number of channels, and bitrate.

Make sure to check your authoring tools before you start your project, to make sure they support Dolby Digital. If not, consider upgrading. Windows-based tools with this feature include Adobe Encore, Pinnacle Liquid Edition 5, Ulead DVD Workshop 2, and Sonic MyDVD Deluxe. On the Macintosh, DVD Studio Pro 2's A.Pack does the job.

The majority of non-Hollywood discs have a stereo soundtrack, or "2.0 channels" in Dolby-talk. When encoding stereo audio in Dolby Digital, we generally recommend 192 kilobits per second (kbps). Going much lower starts to reduce your quality without much benefit. If you want to be conservative on a musically oriented piece, there may be some benefit to 256 kbps; beyond that, you're facing diminishing returns.

The preceding explanation is from CustomFlix DVD Publishing News - The Top Ten DVD Authoring Nightmares... And how to avoid them!
 
Thanks again, Blaine... When I export to dvd I don't have the option to adjust the audio in regards to the pcm or ac3... however, If I choose the maximize bitrate option it sets the bitrate for what can fit on to the dvd, In my case it set it at 5.2 roughly... Do you know how this change is going to affect the quality of the dvd overall?

SmithHouse
 
You are so close to the single-layer DVD size limit that using AC3 for your audio might just get you under the limit. But, you still need some room for menus and whatnot so maybe not. Another option would be to burn a double-layer disk, which can handle twice the data. But you're best bet is probably to use AC3 audio and trim a little bit off your video's bitrate. YES, this will lower quality a bit, but you don't really have another option, so you just have to deal with it. If you are really worried about quality, there's nothing really better than using 2-pass VBR encoding to squeeze the most quality out of the same bit rate -- but the encode will take FOREVER when compared to single-pass.

As far as DVR, I'm not sure how that workflow would work, but it sounds like a bad idea to me? Are you passing an analog signal to the DVR and then burning on-the-fly from there? Even if you were pass component, I highly doubt you'd get even near the quality of a 2-pass VBR encode at the same bitrates. Those DVR's probably aren't even using 720x480 when they encode. Tivo doesn't that's for sure, I think their best quality is 480x480 anamorphic MPEG2 (maybe 640x480, but I don;t think so).
 
It's all about how much control you need over your project. If the answer is "none at all, just show me a no-nonsense dvd" a DVR might be what you need.

PimpDaddyDA, do you go from camera to DVR via RCA?
 
Using a DVR like that is a great simple and easy solution, but let there be no doubt that running analog out of the camera and into the DVR and using real-time encoding is NOT going to get you the best quality DVD. For starters, you're going digital-analog-digital in that workflow, which is an entire extra round trip that's going through the camera A/D and the DVR's A/D. Secondly, any real-time encoding is NOT going to be using a 2-pass VBR encoding scheme, which is the techniques that typically results in the highest quality MPEG2 for a given bit rate used. Third, I'll bet that the DVR is not recording in 720x480 anamorphic. Maybe it is, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if it used a lower resolution.

It's also important to seperate the MPEG2 encoding from the DVD burning. Yup, the DVR is doing both pretty much at the same time, but if you've spent countless money, time, and resources on a video project, and you want to master the best DVD you possibly can, you want to get the encoding right. Yeah, it takes a long freaking time, BUT YOU ONLY HAVE TO DO IT ONCE. Then burning as many DVDs as you want from the master will go as fast as any DVR can put out. Not to mention the lack of menu, or worse yet, some hokey DVR menu it might make for you. Yeah, the DVR is an option without a doubt, but if you're looking for the most polished DVD you can make, going that route won't get you the best DVD you can possibly squeeze out of your footage.

There's definately a time and place for using a DVR (actually it's more like a DVD recorder, which may or may not have DVR capabilities), so I'm not saying it not a good option. I'm just saying you have to understand the pros/cons, then use whatever approach is most appropriate for the project at hand.
 
Thanks for all the help guys... This whole thing is starting to make a bit more sense to me. Losing quality is not an option if I can avoid it, because I'm planning to sell the dvds... PPro will export my movie by dropping the bitrate down to 5.1 (I checked the maximize bitrate option) and it's set for VBR 2 pass... is that 5.1 still going to yield good quality... and does that bitrate affect audio and video or just the audio... Thanks guys...

SmithHouse
 
Smithhouse said:
Thanks for all the help guys... This whole thing is starting to make a bit more sense to me. Losing quality is not an option if I can avoid it, because I'm planning to sell the dvds... PPro will export my movie by dropping the bitrate down to 5.1 (I checked the maximize bitrate option) and it's set for VBR 2 pass... is that 5.1 still going to yield good quality... and does that bitrate affect audio and video or just the audio... Thanks guys...

SmithHouse
Click to expand...

just watch the dvd after on a tv and see if its good enough
 
Thanks Professor :) simple, but effective.... I'll give that a try...

I just didn't know if there was a particular bad bitrate number that I should technically stay away from.
 
It really depends on the source material and the encoder. I try to play the DVD both on a computer monitor and a TV as sometimes a problem shows up on one that is masked on another (and vice versa).
-Dan
 
Hey, I'm back.... regarding the DVR recording....

I go from the computer, via fire wire, to the camera, then, output S-Video and stereo left and right directly in the DVR. I use the tape export, and uncheck the "control camera" box. Hit record on the DVR then click record on the computer screen (to initiate output) and then a few hours later, there is your movie on a clean dvd.

It's an analog signal of a digital output, which is super clean. Analog is not such a bad word when the source is digital.

After I make my "master" on the DVR, I then, make a DVD copy of it on my 8.5 computer dvd drive. That copy plays well on most all dvd's so far.

Yes, it is not the exact exact digital copy... but people, really, there is no way to tell them apart. I've made dvd's both ways, and I play them on a wide screen TV, and it is impossible to tell them apart. And if there is compression on your computer dvd creation, then my way is still just as good, if not better.

It's splitting hairs when you say the digital reproduction is better than the analog. Sure, if you go by the techno hand book of the ultimate video creation... then sure, my dvd is a few micros off.... but nobody's TV is set the same and everybody's is off a bit... so it really doesn't matter.

For film makers that need the time and money, the DVR is the way to go. No hassles, no stress, real time copy of your movie. Most film makers are in the business of creation.. not DVD reproduction.

Leave the reproduction to the pros after your movie sells. If I knew all of this earlier, I could've made another movie with all the time I spent on trying to learn how to burn a dvd.

just food for thought....
 
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