FCS3 color and soundtrack workflow?

[sbaileymediaman]

Interested in a FCS3 workflow as my Adobe one is becoming a bit messy.

Have been using Adobe Production CS4 on a Mac Pro for a few months but am very uninmpressed with Soundbooth. After using Audition on PC for over 2 years I am shocked at Adobe's new audio program. It's like Adobe has taken a big bulldozer and replaced it with a plastic shovel. The audio level meter is better in Premiere than in Soundbooth!

I've been doing video work part time but have recently started a business and am going full time January next year and don't want to have to mess around with Soundbooth on 15k+ corporate jobs. The other problem I'm having is colour correction. I have been doing nearly all of my CC in After Effects using Colour Finesse which is a great program and I have done several TVCs but the problem now is that with longer edits (10 mins or so) when a client wants some changes I've got to go into After Effects and try to move shots around in there (So I don't lose my cc) and make sure audio lines up, etc. It's becoming a bit messy.


Now...For my question!

I'm considering getting the new Final Cut Studio and wondering how people use it for video production work,

e.g. Can I edit a 15 min video with lots of cutting and sound effects in Final Cut then in Soundtrack import the whole timeline and do a ton of audio correction, also import it into Color and do heaps of colour correction. Show the client, they want loads of changes so I move lots of bits around in Final Cut and when I go back to Soundtrack or Colour it updates and I can then change audio files or colour correction with minimal fuss?

What workflow do most of you use for work that could change several times and needs to be altered in short time periods for coporate & tv production?

I really want a workflow that is very quick to make changes with, is very pro (can tweak every last detail) and can handle lots of video and files for video and Tv work and later on, indi film cutting.

-Thanks, hopefully this can help lots of people who are in the same position!

 

[Cools]

I guess I'll take a stab at this to start the conversation.

You can edit 15 minute videos, obviously. But will it it be a smooth experience, that depends on a lot of things.

Soundtrack Pro has a conform feature that theoretically lets you round trip with FCP, but in practice I never found the application to be all that stable. It can work great for small, simple projects, but as soon as you grow to 30+ minutes, you run into problems. I'm not sure how the latest version is, but I hoping it's improved, a lot.

Color is very powerful, but it doesn't fit well with the rest of the suite at all. At least not yet. Not a problem for me so much, but it has it's problems as well. Again, I just got the latest version so can't comment much on that, though I've already encountered problems. But yes, it's powerful and I still love it.

Other's experience will probably vary. At this point, I trust FCP, Motion and DVD Studio Pro. Sountrack Pro and Color I use with caution.

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Personally, I avoid using a lot of round-tripping. I don't trust it and have ran into problems in the past. And like you, I work mostly on quick projects, most of the time, less than a few days so I need efficiency and stability above all. I have to say that I haven't always been happy with Final Cut Studio in terms of stability as mentioned above.

As a general observation: I never do any advanced color or audio correction until I have picture lock from the client. I correct basic things in FCP and only go to Soundtrack Pro and Motion after the edit is final.

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My opinion. Unless you really want to learn something new and have the time, stay with Adobe. FCS is a new system, it has it's quirks and when you are starting, you want to be as efficient as possible. Learning a system as you go isn't always the best strategy.

Otherwise, see if you can find someone else in your area who has FCS, maybe you can play with it or maybe form some sort of partnership so you can outsource Color or Soundtrack jobs, at least in the beginning.

Hope this helps. Let me know if you have any specific questions.

 

[sbaileymediaman]

I've cut on FCP (version 4?) in the past but it was only a few 15 sec TV ads and nothing too big. What is Soundtrack Pro like? If I do only correct sound properly after picture lock how good is it in terms of very quickly making, for example, a half hour TV episode sound really good? E.g. Is it a tad basic or offers everything that's necessary for high-end video/tv?

I'd like to have the software so that if I need to, for example, do a medium-budget, 1 hour TV program, with multi-camera shoot with a couple of good sound recordists, I can have it look and sound as good as shows like Australian Idol, Biggest Loser, Survivor, etc.

Is Soundtrack and Color good enough for this is there a better program that still allows me to easily make changes at the last minute? What do most big budget reality TV shows use as they must have hundreds of hours of footage to sound and colour correct?

Thanks

 

[NoahK]

Sure you could certainly do what it is you want to do. FCS is used routinely for TV series and features so a 30-minute project is not going to present a problem as far as the program's capabilities. However, I personally wouldn't recommend bouncing projects back and forth in color correction and final sound mix- that's a recipe for a ton of extra work for yourself not too mention an overwhelmed client being forced to evaluate picture editing, sound mix and color correction all at once.

Your workflow should be- do your temp color correction and sound design during editorial in FCP- it's perfectly capable of both. You explain to the client that sound and picture color are only going to get better once the edit is locked. Once the client signs off on the edit, then you do your sound mix once in STP and you do your color correction once in Color and they sign off on both. There's no reason to juggle 3 balls at once for a client when they will have approve one at a time anyway. Keep it simple for yourself and your clients.

Noah

 

[Cools]

I'd like to have the software so that if I need to, for example, do a medium-budget, 1 hour TV program, with multi-camera shoot with a couple of good sound recordists, I can have it look and sound as good as shows like Australian Idol, Biggest Loser, Survivor, etc.

FCS is more than capable of doing all of this and many professional houses use it. Wether or not YOU will get that quality depends on your expertise and the quality of content you bring into the suite. Remember: garbage in, garbage out.

Soundtrack Pro and Color are both advanced applications. Sountrack Pro has the functionality of both Soundbooth and Audition with a more video oriented workflow. I'd say it's fairly similar to Audition in features for audio editing, though I haven't used Audition much.

Overall, if you've never done audio sweetening or serious color correction then don't expect to get great results with just a push of a button. It takes time to master the tools and years to gain the experience needed to know how and when to use them.

Do a search on Soundtrack Pro and Color tutorials to get an idea of what it looks like in action if you don't have anyone local who uses it.

 

[tbob]

Your workflow should be- do your temp color correction and sound design during editorial in FCP- it's perfectly capable of both. You explain to the client that sound and picture color are only going to get better once the edit is locked. Once the client signs off on the edit, then you do your sound mix once in STP and you do your color correction once in Color and they sign off on both. There's no reason to juggle 3 balls at once for a client when they will have approve one at a time anyway. Keep it simple for yourself and your clients.

This is a perfect description of how to work with the FCS suite. It has always subconsciously been my workflow, but nice to see it put into words.

I have been doing nearly all of my CC in After Effects using Colour Finesse which is a great program and I have done several TVCs but the problem now is that with longer edits (10 mins or so) when a client wants some changes I've got to go into After Effects and try to move shots around in there (So I don't lose my cc) and make sure audio lines up, etc. It's becoming a bit messy.

...So FCS won't really solve this problem for you, it'll just be a different kind of 'messy' - which may actually be better.

I've found the tools and features of Soundtrack Pro (noise reduction, conform, ambient noise, EQ) to be incredibly helpful and quite professional, but STP's bugginess and lack of stability make any of these features not worth the while. Renders of my 4-audio-track source MOVs from my HVX200 often come out sounding different than while in edit - either grabbing the wrong tracks or starting playback of a clip a split-second too early when I've deliberately started the clip *after* a pop. The conform feature would be incredibly time-saving except that it often makes incorrect, irreversible changes. -- Which is why I probably will switch all my audio to ProTools... and still in this case, I'll still need to follow the workflow descirbed above.

However, I'm waiting for someone to comment on STP's 'nuances' in FCS 3.

Ideally, FCS would be a flexible, iterative workflow, but they have a long list of improvements to make before we can get there. If everything worked well, you'd be able to color-correct, then go back and change your edit, and expect the color correction to stick. Or similarly: compress and limit your narration track, then go back and change your edit, and expect your changes to ripple through Soundtrack Pro to a final edit. Until then, I'd say stick with what you know.