FCP vs Vegas

M

matt9b

Well-known member
Having converted from Vegas to FCP, I'm finding the interface on FCP really clunky and slow to use. Things that are quick to do on Vegas, take longer on FCP. I've been working on FCP for quite some time now, and a complex project takes more than twice as long to create in FCP than in Vegas. I'm wonderin if anyone else has had the same experience, or if there is something I'm missing? FCP is supposed to be an excellent program, so I'm wondering if I'm doing things wrong somehow. (But that in itself is another niggle- Vegas is intuitive, I never had to read the manual, where as FCP I had to read the manual just to get started. I don't mind learning curves, as long as it's worth it, but I've found that doing things in FCP is so much slower than Vegas, to the point where time adds up.)

Some specific examples:

You're located on a point in an event, and decide to split it at that point:
FCP: 1. select the razor-blade tool (or press B) 2. zoom in (command + ) 3. click exactly at the same point where you're located.

Vegas: Press S

You would like to erase audio from the selected event:
FCP: 1. move the mouse to the left part of the screen 2. click the lock icon for that video track 3. move the mouse back to the event 4. click the audio 5. press delete

Vegas: 1. press U 2. click the audio 3. press delete

You would like to cross-fade audio tracks that overlap by 1 second (to avoid clicks)
FCP: 1. Click the cross-over point between the events 2. right-click 3. select 'cross-fade' 4. There is no easy way to then customize the fade

Vegas: 1. (cross fade is automatic) drag the cross fade to customize it.

You would like to edit video and audio manually, independently
FCP: 1. Move the mouse to the left hand side of the screen. 2. Press 'lock' on each audio track one by one, until they're all locked. 3. edit the video events as you wish 4. Move the mouse to the left hand side of the screen. 5. Press 'unlock' on each audio track one by one, until they're all unlocked 6. Press 'lock' on each video track one by one until they're all locked 7. edit the audio events as you wish 8. Move the mouse ot the left side of the screen 9. press 'unlock' on all the video events one by one. 10. If you wish to edit audio or video events again, repeat the above process.

Vegas: 1. Press Ctrl-A 2. Press U 3. Edit audio and video as you wish.

You wish to create a fade out
FCP: 1. Select the Pen tool 2. Click on the video event where you'd like the fade to start 3. Click on the event where you'd like the fade to end and drag down to zero 4. Click on the audio event where you'd like the fade to start 5. click on the audio event where you'd like the fade to end and drag down to zero.

Vegas: 1. Click the edge of the event and drag the fade across




The above are just some basic editing examples. When you're doing a complex project, since the time to do little tasks is more than doubled, it takes a lot longer to edit a project in FCP. This time adds up. I know a few FCP gurus and Vegas Gurus, and the FCP gurus take much longer to do the same project in FCP than the Vegas guys do. I'm wondering if this is just because my Vegas guys are faster - or if it's something to do with efficiency of Vegas interface versus the FCP interface.

It's a shame that FCP doesn't have Vegas' interface, as I prefer the output quality & preview quality of FCP. (Vegas output tends to change colours / contrast). But overall, since I have used Vegas and FCP, I'm finding simple tasks on FCP unnecessarily time-consuming. It's a big difference; we're talking less than half the time to do the same project in Vegas. I just wish Sonic Foundry still ran Vegas as Sony are doing almost nothing for it. Over-all, I guess I'm going to be returning to Vegas, simply due to the time to do basic tasks.

Last night I realised that I was allowing FCP to make decisions for me, as opposed to making creative decisions myself. I was choosing short-cuts to get the project done, and at that point I realised I had to go back to Vegas.

It confuses me though, because FCP is expensive. You'd expect the interface to be top notch. Has anyone else had similar experience or am I missing something?

Thanks
 
Last edited:
For years I was a Premiere Pro guy....then FCP.... moved to Vegas about 4 years ago and have never looked back. I try to keep current on FCP, just because, but you're right. I can edit something at least twice as fast in Vegas. I think I've looked at the help section twice in 4 years.

I will say, like any other software, what ever works best for YOU is the one to go with. They all do the same stuff. I also prefer Vegas, because I've been a long-time Sound Forge, Acid user.
 
For ungrouping events, you don't even have to select them. Press the "Ignore Event Grouping" button in the toolbar, or press ctrl+shift+U.

Yes, the transitions/crossfades/edit points are enough to make me wish I was using Vegas whenever I venture out to anything else -- as well as the exceptional flexibility with the audio tracks (not being forced to have them all grouped together, or being forced to have only one kind of audio on a specific track).

But, some people prefer it the way FCP/Premiere do it, so to each their own.
 
lol, that's the difference between using the mouse and knowing the shortcut.(it's the same on any nle).

you can assign a key for anything, like for example the split or marker, you can playback the clip and split with the shortcut while playing or stop at a point and split, it's a one key action.(default split in fcp is a modifer and b i think, you can see all the keyboard shortcuts and assign any from help>keyboard if i remember correctly), same thing for the marker, you can mark the split point at anytime and during playback

audio is a one click action

cross fade is a one click or one key action
 
Of course everything can be assigned to key (and I've assigned both Premiere and FCP to be as close to how I work in Vegas as possible), but the crossfades in Premiere/FCP simply don't work like they do in Vegas, nor do the audio tracks. That's hard-built into the program.
 
ignoring the one key split video now,

removing the audio is also a one click event, it's not difficult(it's a mouse click).

the audio fade is a one key(there is a key for default transition(or last transition), it defaults to cross fade), and you can apply it to all audio clips or all selected audio clips as well.
 
all your saying is using shortcuts are better or faster than using the mouse.

you can use shortcuts in fcp.
 
No, I'm not. I'm talking about pure functionality. Nothing to do with keyboard shortcuts or mouse clicks.
 
matt9b

Here's a more philosophical reply for you. The differences you experience between FCP and Vegas have more to do with the development process used to create them than anything else. FCP, being an Apple product, was developed by people who write software for a computer system, namely the Apple line of computers.

That is much different from developing software for a particular purpose, such as video editing or word processing. And it is a key difference unrecognized by most people.

In the first case the developers operate under the assumption that they know their system the best and therefor they know what the end user should be doing. So they write code that lets the user do what they want the user to do. In the second case the developers try to find the best way to give the user the functionality they need to accomplish the task at hand.

In the case of Vegas the Sony developers were well aware of what it takes to edit video, because Sony is in the business of doing real video production (called movies). I think we all know what business Apple is in.

Another example of this difference is the way MS develops its application software. What they do is write the software and then put traps in it to record literally every keystroke and mouse click. (This is called instrumentation.) Then they get a bunch of real people to use the software to do real activities. Then they look at the recorded data and figure out how to reduce keystrokes & mouse clicks. I'm not aware that any other company does this.

My point here is not to praise MS or bash Apple; clearly they both have their strong points. But it is valuable to be aware of not only what software developers do, but why they do it.
 
Well, that's not actually how the respective programs developed.

FCP was developed independently from Apple by the same people who developed Premiere (which is why the two are so similar). Its goal was more to emulate the systems which editors worked on at that time -- linear systems with source and program decks. It was actually available for Windows at first. Then Apple bought it.

When Sonic Foundry -- not Sony -- developed Vegas, it did so not from the point of view of how editors were used to working in an entirely different world, but more from the point of view of how it actually makes sense to do it on a computer -- with a lot of audio editing program norms thrown in. It's an entirely different approach -- "what makes sense here" instead of "how has this been done for a long time?"

You may or may not like Vegas's approach to things, but that was the mindset behind it.

So, I do think this was largely true:

In the first case the developers operate under the assumption that they know their system the best and therefor they know what the end user should be doing. So they write code that lets the user do what they want the user to do. In the second case the developers try to find the best way to give the user the functionality they need to accomplish the task at hand.
Click to expand...
Though it has been less and less true since Sony bought Sonic Foundry (around Version 4); they've been much more about pushing the Sony way. ('Coz you KNOW editors were champing at the bit for Export to PlayStation Portable.)
 
I don't see how audio cross fades can be that big of an issue. Most of my edits are cuts only for the audio track. 1 of every 250 cuts might have and audio cross fade. If 240 out of 250 had cross fade for the audio track I could see your point. As mentioned you should try to master the FCP keyboard. You know the Vegas shot cuts already so it seems easier. I don't think FCP is all that geat but Avid , FCP and Premiere have a simular GUI. Vegas is a bit odd to me. If you like Vegas that is cool but as other have stated it is good to know FCP.
 
I am still torn between both of them... and they both have their plus and minuses...

FCP to me looks better... and Vegas is much easier to use...
 
It's not just audio, and it's not just "crossfades." It's the whole process of creating transitions and how media behaves on the timeline, particularly when it overlaps on the same track.
 
Thanks all for your input. It's interesting to note that people who know how to use both Vegas and FCP seem to be in agreement: Vegas is faster and easier to get the job done, but the export from FCP looks better.

From my experience, I'd have to agree. FCP is a nightmare to edit on, unless you're editing something very simple, but the colours / picture seem to look better.

If only Vegas had FCP's good visual quality, or FCP had Vegas's fast interface.
 
matt9b said:
If only Vegas had FCP's good visual quality
Click to expand...

If you mean the fact that Vegas shows a washed out preview on YUV footage if not using a secondary monitor. You really have to know Vegas' odd behaviors when dealing with RGB conversions. I always apply a studio to computer RGB preset on YUV material, if not using a secondary monitor - or I always check the "Use studio RGB" in the Preview device properties - this will compensate for the washed out colours. Here FCP shines with it's monitoring performance. But Vegas will still export exactly the same visual quality.
 
You do have to make sure to make an apples/apples comparison, though -- exporting from both to the same codec.
 
matt9b said:
Thanks all for your input. It's interesting to note that people who know how to use both Vegas and FCP seem to be in agreement: Vegas is faster and easier to get the job done, but the export from FCP looks better.

From my experience, I'd have to agree. FCP is a nightmare to edit on, unless you're editing something very simple, but the colours / picture seem to look better.

If only Vegas had FCP's good visual quality, or FCP had Vegas's fast interface.
Click to expand...


I own fcp and Vegas but barely use fcp. Visual quality of fcp? Is that a joke? The unconsistency of gamma and video leves depending on the codec you're using is the reason why i dropped fcp. There is no way of maintaining the same valúes across different programs if fcp is involved in the workflow.


Vegas processing colours at 32bits now made me stop using scratch for certain projects.
Where vegas sucks is on large Projects and the lack of proper edl output.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top