Fanboyism and Brand Loyalty

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I'm sure there's plenty of truth in that article.

But before this thread even gets started, let's be pretty clear on something -- we don't want fanboyism here on this board. We want actual users of the products, who are actually using the products, who are describing their usages, asking questions, seeking help, and giving help to users of those products.

Anyone who ties their self-image into their purchase decisions, and feels the need to defend those decisions to the death, will find no room here on DVXUser for that.

If you want to describe what work you do, and why a particular product is ideal for that work, hey, go right ahead. We have many folks here seeking knowledge on their purchase decision. We welcome discussions that HELP someone make a decision, sure. And we definitely welcome discussions that describe how you work with a particular camera or software or whatever, what you've learned about it, and how that can help others who are seeking such knowledge.

We have always immediately squelched any "Mac vs. PC" arguments, because that's what they are -- arguments. And we really don't want any "F3 vs. Red" arguments, or "Scarlet vs. " arguments, or "GH2 vs 60D" arguments or "AF100 vs NXCAM" arguments, or anything like that. If someone has a specific need from a product, and one product does what they need better than another, then say so and be done with it. Just remember that there really is no such thing as one product being empirically "better" than another -- there's just those that are "better for a specific usage".

In a sad day for Internet discussions, ex-BBC engineer Alan Roberts today had to declare that the arguing had gotten so bad that he will now forever never read or comment on any camera or camera company related post ever again. And he's the moderator of the dvdoctor forum, and fanboyism has driven him off his own forum!

That's not going to happen here, thankyouverymuch.

DVXUser is about the users, and assisting each other to get the best from their chosen career path and the products they use to accomplish that. Sure, we started out as DVXUser because the DVX was something we were all using, but through it all, the "user" part is more important than the actual product that we're using.

Understanding how "branding" works, and even the notion of being branded like cattle, is quite interesting and I think if more people read the aforementioned article, we might indeed have less arguing here on the boards.
 
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Interesting, and kind of pathetic that people get their ego tied up in the products they buy. I will buy a product and use it if it gets the job done that I need it for without getting in my way. If it doesn't, I move on. I don't care who made it.
 
Batutta said:
Interesting, and kind of pathetic that people get their ego tied up in the products they buy. I will buy a product and use it if it gets the job done that I need it for without getting in my way. If it doesn't, I move on. I don't care who made it.
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Well, "pathetic" is a harsh word -- remember that people are up against some pretty sophisticated marketing machines that have researched the psychology to the limit and who know very well exactly how to push a human being's buttons.

I think it's pretty fascinating that they talk about how someone's brain would actually try to reconfigure itself so that it believes the facts meet the way it already believes in the first place, even when the facts disagreed with its preconceived notion.

It's nice to see and know this stuff, hopefully it will help vaccinate some of us against being branded.

I will buy a product and use it if it gets the job done that I need it for without getting in my way. If it doesn't, I move on.
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That's the way it should be. Each product does what it does -- you should match your uses against what the product actually does, and see if they're a good fit -- regardless of who makes it, and regardless of what other people say about that particular product.
 
Well said Barry, I agree 100%.

I hope you don't think I was trying to single out DVXuser. This sort of thing is just all over the place, and I'm quite sure it pre-dates the internet. Mac vs. PC or camera A vs. camera B is really just the same as Ford vs. Chevy, rock vs. country, or anything else along those lines. People pick a side, dig their heels in, and go to battle. One of the peculiarities of human nature.

Hopefully if people are aware of their inherent biases, they can take them into account.

That site is pretty full of interesting information actually. I bookmarked the RSS feed.
 
Barry_Green said:
I think it's pretty fascinating that they talk about how someone's brain would actually try to reconfigure itself so that it believes the facts meet the way it already believes in the first place, even when the facts disagreed with its preconceived notion.
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I find this facinating as well. Dan Ariely wrote a book, Predictably Irrational, about behavioral economics that covers a lot of the same ground. You should have a look at it, it's an interesting read. In short, our brains oftentimes go the extra mile only to make the wrong decision.

You don't have to go far on the internet to find bad decisions that are born out of fanboy behaviour. There was a thread in another forum about setting up multiple RED cameras in studio configuration to serve as IMAG cameras for a church. What? For the record, using Arri Alexxa's for the same purpose would be an ignorant idea as well. It's like the users are insisting on pounding a round peg into a square hole. Why do you want to do that ? "Because I really love this round peg".
 
milksac said:
It's like the users are insisting on pounding a round peg into a square hole. Why do you want to do that ? "Because I really love this round peg".
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We do see things like that all the time here. And it's normally just not all that rational a thing to do. There is indeed something emotional that takes over, because in other non-branded areas, we wouldn't see this type of behavior. I don't see folks insisting on using bailing wire to wrap packages with, they normally use tape to do that. Not saying you *couldn't* wrap a package with bailing wire, but -- why would you, when tape does that job so much better?

The types of products we discuss here have certainly caused some emotional reactions, and that leads to the type of arguments that we don't want to see here. It really is simple -- some types of products are better for certain tasks than other types of products are -- and we should all be okay with that. For some users, a Sony EX1R may be the better choice for what they want to do, than an AF100 is -- and that should be okay, not only should the AF100 owners not try to talk the guy into getting an AF100, but the person making the choice should be okay with the idea that maybe the Sony is the better choice in that example and not try to finagle or wrangle or otherwise talk themselves into the idea that you can do just as well with something else. We've had these discussions with PAL users and the GH2, and some have gotten quite angry with me for pointing out the simple fact that the GH2 doesn't do 25p, and so if you need 25p, don't buy a GH2. For some reason that makes some people mad. It's like -- they hear great things about the GH2 so they want to believe the GH2 is what they need, even when it glaringly has a major shortcoming. So instead of saying "too bad, close but no cigar" they buy the GH2 anyway, and then spend their time complaining that it doesn't do what they need.

DSLRs have their place. Panasonics have their place. Sonys have their place. Red has their place. The Alexa has its place. Figure out what it is that you're trying to do, and then figure out what product does what you need done, and then go with it -- and quit shopping, and don't feel like you now have to convert all the unwashed ignorant masses to get them to understand the wisdom of your decision. What's that all about anyway? Just go shoot, make marvelous footage, and share it with us.
 
Barry_Green said:
Well, "pathetic" is a harsh word -- remember that people are up against some pretty sophisticated marketing machines that have researched the psychology to the limit and who know very well exactly how to push a human being's buttons.
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I think mine was the last generation of kids that wasn't marketed to in such a scientific way. It was certainly starting then, but it wasn't such a non stop assault and the advertising was still product-centric. Now companies push brands, the products are almost irrelevant. It's more about a lifestyle, an image...dare I say a 'religion' (sorry to bring up the R-word). I can only imagine what that's doing to the brains of impressionable youth.
 
I think mine was the last generation of kids that wasn't marketed to in such a scientific way. It was certainly starting then, but it wasn't such a non stop assault and the advertising was still product-centric
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I don't know which generation you belong to or how old you are, but I can certainly remember cigarette marketing in the sixties and it was absolutely wall-to-wall prevalent. It was completely a non-stop assault. It seems bizarre for us to hear about smoking on airplanes now, but this is what it was like back then. Of course, we also had commercials about "more doctors smoke Camels than any other brand"... That's a hardcore branding message, and that's from 1949.

Today, "lifestyle" ads are very prevalent -- just look at any beer commercial or coke commercial or McDonald's "I'm loving it" commercial. It's never about the product or the actual merits of the product, it's about the lifestyle. It's fashion. It's trying to convince people that if they want to look "in" and be accepted, they need to wear "skinny jeans" and drink "such-and-such" beer and use "so-and-so" cell phones and use a certain brand of laptop computer and shoot their film on a certain type of camcorder, etc. Not to single any one particular company out, but when your tagline is "If you don't have an iPhone, well... you don't have an iPhone" -- that's pretty specific.

Fashion is huge, huge business. I've seen estimates on the web (okay, not exactly thorough research) that put fashion at anywhere from $20 billion/year to $400 billion per year. And while Meryl Streep may have given a notable defense to the fashion industry in "The Devil Wears Prada", it still seems puzzling why people would quit wearing perfectly good clothes and go buy all new ones because ... they're "in" ... and start tottering around in shoes that don't fit and shoes that actually damage their feet, just to be "fashionable." Of course, there's also the fashionable practice (in certain countries) of "foot-binding" and the fashionable practice of purposely inhaling smoke and other types of cultural peer-pressure things that cause otherwise rational people to simply behave in a way that's ... not.

It's amazing.

But, while interesting (at least to me), this is kind of totally off-topic for us as far as the forum is concerned. By and large, nobody cares what product you used to shoot your project on, and if they DO care, then they're probably wieners anyway so don't concern yourself with what such folks think. Research based on what you need to accomplish, get the best product for that task, and then go and do.
 
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It's very much a consumer culture thing to mistake a rational buying decision with an emotional one. But in the case of qualitative aesthetic devices such as cameras, a buying choice is based on emotional response by default. Debates based on pixel peeping such as sharpness or flaring aside, I think it's imperative to make an emotional connection with the way a certain camera affects an image in an overall manner. The problem with this emotional response is when it grows outward from the self and ends up as FUD. I think people ought to respect personal subjectivism and response more.
 
vcassel said:
I think people ought to respect personal subjectivism and response more.
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Agreed entirely. What's right for you may not be what's right for them -- and we all have to be okay with that. It doesn't diminish you in any way, if someone else makes a different choice.
 
you ingrateful heretics. after all these years trying to convince you people that some cameras and some brands are FAR superior, this is the thanks i get. i'm here to set the record straight. there is NO camera, NO idea, and NO vision that comes anywhere close to what i'm going to bring you. this is the end all and the be all of cameras. with the power of 1000 untamed horses, with the pinpoint focus of a million lasers focused on a single atom, with THE astounding beauty of a trillion sunsets, this isn't just a camera, it is THE CAMERA! THIS IS YOUR NEW DEITY! BOW DOWN AND SUCKLE FROM THE TEET OF FILMMAKING GREATNESS. PROSTRATE AND WORSHIP YOUR NEW MASTER! RAAAAWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

humbly yours,
jim
 
ugafan said:
you ingrateful heretics. after all these years trying to convince you people that some cameras and some brands are FAR superior, this is the thanks i get. i'm here to set the record straight. there is NO camera, NO idea, and NO vision that comes anywhere close to what i'm going to bring you. this is the end all and the be all of cameras. with the power of 1000 untamed horses, with the pinpoint focus of a million lasers focused on a single atom, with THE astounding beauty of a trillion sunsets, this isn't just a camera, it is THE CAMERA! THIS IS YOUR NEW DEITY! BOW DOWN AND SUCKLE FROM THE TEET OF FILMMAKING GREATNESS. PROSTRATE AND WORSHIP YOUR NEW MASTER! RAAAAWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

humbly yours,
jim
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/thread
 
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