Fan Film - Batman

[El Gato Negro]

I had some questions pertaining to producing/shooting a fan film based on Batman. Obviously, I can not sell any form of dvd's or merchandise associated with Batman (t-shirts, posters). Do fan films still fall under the fair use law? Their have been some successful fan films based on comic characters: Batman: Dead End, Grayson and Arkham Asylum. The director/producers mostly made these as part of their demo reels and because they are true fans.

I'm mostly concerned with raising money via donations and making sure there will be no issues down the line, when I make a website and promote the film. Can I even submit my screenplay to WGA and Library of Congress?

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

*note to admins, not sure where this question would fit in the forums.

 

[Barry_Green]

Sure, you could submit your script to the WGA and L.O.C. Will it do any good? Probably not, because if you're basing a story on someone else's characters, then your story will most likely be what is classified as a "derivative work" and therefore the copyright to it will vest with the original work's copyright owners. So you can do it, but you won't hold any rights to it! DC Comics would probably be found to be the copyright holder.

Fan films are an odd niche -- sometimes people don't care and will let you do what you want; sometimes they care very much. Paramount used to bring the hammer down hard on anyone infringing on Star Trek in any way, but as I understand it they're much looser now. And George Lucas actually went so far as to establish a fan film contest to encourage folks to make Star Wars fan films, and he put a library of sound effects online that could be downloaded free so you could make your own authentic-sounding fan film. But don't think that any of that entitles you to make a for-profit project or that you own a copyright in the star wars universe!

As for Grayson etc., it'd probably be best to just ask the filmmakers what they experienced. For example, according to Wikipedia, Grayson was scheduled to be shown at the 2004 San Diego ComicCon, but was canceled after Warner and/or DC Comics requested that the convention honor their intellectual property rights and cancel all fan film screenings based on their characters. http://www.mania.com/hero-fan-films-absent-this-years-comiccon_article_110227.html

Point is: you don't own Batman, you can't just take him from DC and do whatever you want with him without consequences. He's not a public-domain character. Robin Hood, yes -- you could do whatever you want with Robin Hood. Or Cyrano DeBergerac or Don Quixote or Beowulf or Aladdin or any other public-domain character. But Batman is a protected property and you'd need a license from DC or Warner or whoever currently controls the rights, in order to make a legal product.

But, then again, sometimes the rightsholders just don't care and will turn a blind eye to your project, as long as you're not demeaning the value of the property or trying to profit off it. But that's the risk you take -- because you cannot own any rights in someone else's property, so if you do it, you're at their mercy. If they encourage you (like Lucas did) then hey, no problem. If they squash you, which is in their legal right to do so, then -- you can be squashed.

As for Batman and WB, at the time, this was a quote from that article:

There is MUCH [emphasis his] light at the end of the tunnel. WB is trying very hard to come to an agreement that will make both sides very happy. This is why they are using me as a 'consultant' on the subject. I have been talking to WB for a couple of years now."
Schoenke continued, "WB doesn't mind fan films, and love the fans' spirit and heart for [their] characters. It's the money [and] legal thing that's a problem. But I have no worry that WBset forth some very positive rules that will only strengthen fan films in general. Just be patient, this will all be resolved in due time."

I don't know whether it was resolved or not.

An interesting case in the fan fiction world is "Another Hope", a fan-fic Star Wars novel that was published for sale and almost immediately shut down by LucasFilm. NPR did a story on fan fiction; you can hear it here: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5367135

Here's a pretty interesting rundown on fan fiction:
http://www.intergalacticmedicineshow.com/cgi-bin/mag.cgi?do=columns&vol=carol_pinchefsky&article=009

Perhaps most interesting is the link to Warner Bros' own boards, which host Harry Potter fan fiction...
http://boards.harrypotter.warnerbros.com

I don't know if they'd follow the same policy for films based on DC characters, but it's at least a place to start. Of course, you'll probably also need DC's permission too.

 

[El Gato Negro]

Sure, you could submit your script to the WGA and L.O.C. Will it do any good? Probably not, because if you're basing a story on someone else's characters, then your story will most likely be what is classified as a "derivative work" and therefore the copyright to it will vest with the original work's copyright owners. So you can do it, but you won't hold any rights to it! DC Comics would probably be found to be the copyright holder.

Fan films are an odd niche -- sometimes people don't care and will let you do what you want; sometimes they care very much. Paramount used to bring the hammer down hard on anyone infringing on Star Trek in any way, but as I understand it they're much looser now. And George Lucas actually went so far as to establish a fan film contest to encourage folks to make Star Wars fan films, and he put a library of sound effects online that could be downloaded free so you could make your own authentic-sounding fan film. But don't think that any of that entitles you to make a for-profit project or that you own a copyright in the star wars universe!

As for Grayson etc., it'd probably be best to just ask the filmmakers what they experienced. For example, according to Wikipedia, Grayson was scheduled to be shown at the 2004 San Diego ComicCon, but was canceled after Warner and/or DC Comics requested that the convention honor their intellectual property rights and cancel all fan film screenings based on their characters. http://www.mania.com/hero-fan-films-absent-this-years-comiccon_article_110227.html

Point is: you don't own Batman, you can't just take him from DC and do whatever you want with him without consequences. He's not a public-domain character. Robin Hood, yes -- you could do whatever you want with Robin Hood. Or Cyrano DeBergerac or Don Quixote or Beowulf or Aladdin or any other public-domain character. But Batman is a protected property and you'd need a license from DC or Warner or whoever currently controls the rights, in order to make a legal product.

But, then again, sometimes the rightsholders just don't care and will turn a blind eye to your project, as long as you're not demeaning the value of the property or trying to profit off it. But that's the risk you take -- because you cannot own any rights in someone else's property, so if you do it, you're at their mercy. If they encourage you (like Lucas did) then hey, no problem. If they squash you, which is in their legal right to do so, then -- you can be squashed.

As for Batman and WB, at the time, this was a quote from that article:

I don't know whether it was resolved or not.

Awesome input Barry. In no way well I try to make any money of the project. Just a huge Batman geek and I had this burning desire to make a fan film, with a unique twist on one of the most underrated villains.

Lucus and even Stephen King (if I'm correct) have given tremendous leeway on their characters. Warner Brothers is a different story. For the most part I will just submit the film on youtube and vimeo and see where it goes.

Will start a users film thread as well. Will definitely contact John Fiorella and get his input.

Thanks Barry.

 

[Nathyn]

Barry is on point. What happens here is you're dealing with an industry (comic books) that turns it's head most of the times. People do sale their fan films at cons. Certain fan films were going at $10 a pop for a DVD at the same con the company was at. The artist and writers knew what was going on, they walk around the cons.

The rub is it's fans of their material buying from other fans. Better to have a culture around it than for people not to buy. And while Warner Bros (who owns DC Comics) did have the showing canceled, they didn't force it to be canceled nor where their any lawsuits and Grayson is still one of the most celebrated fan films out there. It's one of those odd films where people say "why doesn't DC do this?" (Or something like it).

Sure the comic book company would like to make that $10, but they didn't do the film. LOL. While legally there's a gray area, and we know selling fan films based on © characters is illegal it's an accepted practice in geekdom. But again another way is to claim "no-profit" save the cost of the production of the DVD/video tape. This is done with Anime fan subs pretty often and it's part of the reason anime was (is) taking over. It's influence is incredible do to fans. People made dubs and actually passed them on or sold them at cost and people bought them.

Now how will all this work out for you? Who knows. Marvel and DC are both known for being cool about it, I don't know about Image or Darkhorse and smaller companies probably do their own films. But if you do it, I wouldn't start a website and sell it or anything. Upload it to Youtube and Vimeo. And if you do plan on selling do it at the cons right in front of their faces. I know it's odd but there's a better chance of them letting it go there than anywhere else simply because of the con culture and no know one wants to be known for suing fans.

If I had the kind of money these companies did, I would pull some of these guys off the street, give them a couple of bucks and let them develop some of these things for straight to DVD rentals. It makes sense when you own the distribution. There's so many DC fan films around I'd do a "DC Universe Fan Film" collection. Get the best together and put them on a DVD, then I'd do a Grayson DVD feature.

-Nate

 

[El Gato Negro]

Barry is on point. What happens here is you're dealing with an industry (comic books) that turns it's head most of the times. People do sale their fan films at cons. Certain fan films were going at $10 a pop for a DVD at the same con the company was at. The artist and writers knew what was going on, they walk around the cons.

The rub is it's fans of their material buying from other fans. Better to have a culture around it than for people not to buy. And while Warner Bros (who owns DC Comics) did have the showing canceled, they didn't force it to be canceled nor where their any lawsuits and Grayson is still one of the most celebrated fan films out there. It's one of those odd films where people say "why doesn't DC do this?" (Or something like it).

Sure the comic book company would like to make that $10, but they didn't do the film. LOL. While legally there's a gray area, and we know selling fan films based on © characters is illegal it's an accepted practice in geekdom. But again another way is to claim "no-profit" save the cost of the production of the DVD/video tape. This is done with Anime fan subs pretty often and it's part of the reason anime was (is) taking over. It's influence is incredible do to fans. People made dubs and actually passed them on or sold them at cost and people bought them.

Now how will all this work out for you? Who knows. Marvel and DC are both known for being cool about it, I don't know about Image or Darkhorse and smaller companies probably do their own films. But if you do it, I wouldn't start a website and sell it or anything. Upload it to Youtube and Vimeo. And if you do plan on selling do it at the cons right in front of their faces. I know it's odd but there's a better chance of them letting it go there than anywhere else simply because of the con culture and no know one wants to be known for suing fans.

If I had the kind of money these companies did, I would pull some of these guys off the street, give them a couple of bucks and let them develop some of these things for straight to DVD rentals. It makes sense when you own the distribution. There's so many DC fan films around I'd do a "DC Universe Fan Film" collection. Get the best together and put them on a DVD, then I'd do a Grayson DVD feature.

-Nate

That would be an awesome idea to have DC or Marvel offer submissions for fan films. It's free promotion for both the director and DC. And I hope that one day I have the cash to buy Marvel back, the thought of Disney owning it makes me gag.

 

[Nathyn]

Honestly Marvel can suck a big one. After all they've done to hurt the indy comic market then shifting the blame. It's hard to not like movies like Iron Man and Spider-Man, but sheesh. They've done so much crap.

-Nate